Originally posted by sonshipWell I am not a Christian, so I do not subscribe to the "authority" of the canon in its entirety. It's odd that you don't know that after us conversing for maybe 6 years.
From another thread it seems to me that you have decided what you really don't like in the New Testament and persuaded yourself that such a book is not in the canon.
Tell me then, what did your NT canon consist of without the books that bother you, on say, the matter of God's judgment ?
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Originally posted by FMF
Show me where it is stated that the mob that called for Jesus' crucifixion "knew" that he was the "Son Of God" and then I will concede that it is a clearly documented part of your Christian mythology.
Show me where it is stated that the mob that called for Jesus' crucifixion "knew" that he was the "Son Of God" and then I will concede that it is a clearly documented part of your Christian mythology.
Show me that the gospels is mythology just because you don't like something in it or believe it ?
So I could be wrong that the entire crowd knew. I think I already admitted that several posts back. I did limit analysis to the chief priests and main instigators of the crowd.
Do you wish I would stick to my initial statement not limiting it to the main instigators ? I think I'd rather not. You should be satisfied that you got me to tune my statement somewhat.
There are also at least two Greek words translated "know" in English. I'd have to do a word study to see in the original language the depth of their knowing.
Yet, again according to Christ's parable - the chief opposers recognized the son of the owner of the vineyard. And they agreed to murder the heir so that the inheritance of the theocratic nation would be theirs alone.
Such is the madness of religious power in the hands of Satan.
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Originally posted by FMF
Well I am not a Christian, so I do not subscribe to the "authority" of the canon in its entirety. It's odd that you don't know that after us conversing for maybe 6 years.
Show me where it is stated that the mob that called for Jesus' crucifixion "knew" that he was the "Son Of God" and then I will concede that it is a clearly documented part of your Christian mythology.
Really ?
In the six or so years of reading some of your thoughts, I considered you to keep some matters just a bit close to the vest to kind of keep us guessing.
I mean I of course see your disguntled grumblings that you were surrounded by Christians in your family. But I never really saw you say strongly what your position was.
I always read you as a kind of "keep my options open" kind of complainer. Sorry !
Originally posted by sonshipNot at all. I am not a proselytising religionist, if that's what you mean.I have always been totally open about being an ex-Christian. It's peculiar to me that you now claim otherwise.
In the six or so years of reading some of your thoughts, I considered you to keep some matters just a bit close to the vest to kind of keep us guessing.
Originally posted by sonshipI have never once "grumbled" here ~ or anywhere ~ about my wife's faith or the faith of any members of my family and have never once said anything remotely "disgruntled" or in the slightest bit negative about being "surrounded" by the Christians in my family or in my everyday life. You are simply making this up, sonship.
I mean I of course see your disguntled grumblings that you were surrounding by Christians in your family. But I never really saw you say strongly what your position was.
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Originally posted by FMFI am not making anything up. I could be mistaken. But FMF of a few years of posting once said you had lots of evangelical types in your family. You did not mention your wife.
I have never once "grumbled" here ~ or anywhere ~ about my wife's faith or the faith of any members of my family and have never once said anything remotely "disgruntled" or in the slightest bit negative about being "surrounded" by the Christians in my family or in my everyday life. You are simply making this up, sonship.
This FMF went away from posting in SPirituality awhile and recently, I think, started posting again.
Mistaken I could be. Imagining things up whole cloth ? No. Why should I ?
Originally posted by FMFSo in your upbringing you had no evangelical Christian types telling you to your annoyance about Gospel ?
You are "mistaken". Boy, the things people will just say to try to score a point ~ it never ceases to amaze me.
If that was not you then I am mistaken and apologize.
"Score points" ? Between you and Rajk999 you must think the New Testament will flourish for another 2,000 years just on my Internet Discussion sentences.
Originally posted by sonshipI self-identified as a Christian till well past the age of 30. You're talking nonsense and I think you know it.
So in your upbringing you had no evangelical Christian types telling you to your annoyance about Gospel?
Look, I don't recognize the authority of the bible in spiritual matters. You don't accept it or you bristle at being told, fine. It's happened before with you. Whatever.
But our discussion does not benefit from you suddenly trying to poison the well with pseudo-psychological stuff about my family and my relationships with them.
I am not the least bit hesitant about stating my views and the reasons for them. If I were "disgruntled" or inclined to "grumble" about my family I would come out and say so.
OK, sonship. Please. Enough about my family. Back to the thread topic.
The OP question was "Has the human imagination ever been to a darker place than this?" ['This' being the "eternal torment" in flames thing for billions of people]
Your answer is "Yes. People executing Jesus was" or words to that effect.
Thanks.
Originally posted by FMFFair does not come into play when your speeding down the road and you
This is an odd thing for a 'free moral agent' with 'free will' to say, I think. It doesn't matter whether something is "fair" or not? Really? But isn't what is "fair" and "not fair" absolutely crucial to the validity of what is claimed to be "Justice"? Sometimes you sound like a shrugging citizen of a totalitarian state rather than a devotee and advocate of a system of defendable morals.
get a ticket for speeding if the police get you and not another, you were
speeding. Justice will get all sinners, which means all of us are guilty, but
the door to be saved is open for everyone, everyone!
Fair just means that everyone will be held the same standards, which will
be the case! It again isn't going to mean that if you agree with the
punishment has anything to do with event being fair, if our guilt means we
go here and not there, than we will go here and not there. Where ever the
here and there are for as long as God set them up, be it forever enjoying
the grace and mercy of God, or be it forever not enjoying the wrath of God.
Kelly
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Originally posted by FMF
I self-identified as a Christian till well past the age of 30. You're talking nonsense and I think you know it.
Look, I don't recognize the authority of the bible in spiritual matters. You don't accept it or you bristle at being told, fine. It's happened before with you. Whatever.
But our discussion does not benefit from you suddenly trying to poison the ...[text shortened]... m. If I were "disgruntled" or inclined to "grumble" about my family I would come out and say so.
I self-identified as a Christian till well past the age of 30.
Now that's sounding a little familiar. Go on.
You're talking nonsense and I think you know it.
About your background. Please go on.
Look, I don't recognize the authority of the bible in spiritual matters. You don't accept it or you bristle at being told, fine. It's happened before with you. Whatever.
Your caricature of my position is not completely accurate. As a matter of fact based on my own experience of coming gradually to accept the whole Bible as inspired, I more often sympathize or empathize with people who reading the Scripture have a kind of filter.
I have explained many times here that it was through Jesus and the New Testament that I only gradually opened my mind to accept Genesis and other Old Testament stories.
I am familiar with that mode of development. So I empathize with people who appear to me to possibly be in the same process.
But our discussion does not benefit from you suddenly trying to poison the well with pseudo-psychological stuff about my family and my relationships with them.
Okay, "Pseudo - psychological stuff" ... You use it PLENTY. I find you to be one of the more psychoanalytical posters here often probing into subconscious.
Anyway, all that aside. Your little bit of bio, leads me to believe that maybe I am not mistaken. We'd have to go back a few years. But something you wrote in the past caused me to remember the guy who "been-there-done-that" and had lots of Christians as his background environment.
I'd double check some of the things you told us going back about six years.
I am not the least bit hesitant about stating my views and the reasons for them. If I were "disgruntled" or inclined to "grumble" about my family I would come out and say so.
Okay. You were a self described Christian ? Where did you get your persuasion from ? Who were those most responsible for you wanting once to be a self described Christian ?
Hey, look. You don't have to prove anything about this to me. I can take your word now at face value. But I don't think I am mistaken about something I read from you in the past.
Originally posted by KellyJayThe notion of "Justice" that is under scrutiny here is the one that claims that all people who do not believe in Jesus ~ when their natural lives come to an end ~ will be punished by being burned in excruciating agony for all eternity.
Justice will get all sinners, which means all of us are guilty, but
the door to be saved is open for everyone, everyone!
Do you endorse and/or subscribe to this notion of "Justice"?
If you don't subscribe to it, then consider the OP which suggests that this theological 'scenario' is perhaps the darkest place that human imaginings have ever been. Do you agree?