The Hagia Sophia

@divegeester said
The church building itself should be what it was intended to be I suppose, but what concerns me more is Turkey’s regression into a religious state. Sitting as it does in the gateway to secular Europe Turkey will enjoy increasing influence as it leverages it geographic happenstance and flexes it’s military strength. A problem neighbour for Greece, Cyprus especially but also Eastern Europe in the future.

Who cares?

@caesar-salad said
Who cares?

The BBC, apparently.

@divegeester said
The BBC, apparently.

😴 😴 😴

I am an Orthodox Christian and I can say that this is a personal insult and a travesty.

I would also think that many good Muslims would likely be disappointed with this as well because this really does amount to hijacking another religion's property. Where's the dignity in that?

There's none.

I would be embarrassed if the Orthodox did this to anyone else.

@philokalia said
I am an Orthodox Christian and I can say that this is a personal insult and a travesty.

It's a "personal insult" to you?

It has been a museum for the last 85 years and it was a mosque for 482 years before that.

You feel "personal insult" because it was turned into a mosque in 1453 and because it is now reverting to being a mosque having been a museum for almost a century?

@philokalia said
I would also think that many good Muslims would likely be disappointed with this as well because this really does amount to hijacking another religion's property. Where's the dignity in that?

There's none.

I would be embarrassed if the Orthodox did this to anyone else.

When you say "hijacking another religion's property", are you referring to the events of 1453?

@philokalia said
I would be embarrassed if the Orthodox did this to anyone else.

Do you also feel "personal insult" because it was a Roman Catholic cathedral and not an Orthodox one for 57 years in the 13th Century?

(1) Yeah, it feels as bad as a personal insult for a sacred space to be converted into a mosque, whether it's the first time or the second time. And no, it was not satisfactory that it was a museum, either, but it is far better than being a place where actively a religious service alien to its original purpose takes place.

(2) The relationship between Roman Catholicism & Orthodoxy is different. Of course, I would not want any Cathedral to switch into their hands, but a Roman Catholic mass is far better than a khutbah in a cathedral.

@philokalia said
(1) Yeah, it feels as bad as a personal insult for a sacred space to be converted into a mosque, whether it's the first time or the second time. And no, it was not satisfactory that it was a museum, either, but it is far better than being a place where actively a religious service alien to its original purpose takes place.

You are really feeling "personal insult" about something that happened over 560 years ago?

Philokalia says "...it feels as bad as a personal insult for a sacred space to be converted into a mosque, whether it's the first time or the second time" where the thing that feels like a "personal insult" is something that happened 500+ years ago.

Personally, I assume this is simply a bit of peculiar pious partisan virtue signalling.

However, if I am wrong, and if it is genuine, then it suggests some sort of strange psychological effect stemming from adopted religiosity ~ where one actually reaches back into history and starts to find things to be "personally insulted" by.

Not critical of. Not appalled by. No. Literally... "personally insulted" by.

Is this some kind of psychological phenomenon, I wonder?

Some sort of emotional impact of religious fervour, where feelings of being "insulted" suddenly appear in one's mind brought on by subscribing to a group's religious doctrines and taking a new interest in a particular culture?

This apparent psychological effect of becoming religious is fascinating.

Thank you, Philokalia, for raising it, inadvertently or otherwise. It is a more interesting thing to think about than anything raised by other posters on this thread so far.

@philokalia said
I am an Orthodox Christian and I can say that this is a personal insult and a travesty.

It’s been a museum for donkey’s years, before you were even born and a mosque for centuries before that, but I don’t suppose you’ve batted an eyelid about that.

@fmf said
Philokalia says "...it feels as bad as a personal insult for a sacred space to be converted into a mosque, whether it's the first time or the second time" where the thing that feels like a "personal insult" is something that happened 500+ years ago.

Personally, I assume this is simply a bit of peculiar pious partisan virtue signalling.

However, if I am wrong, and if it is g ...[text shortened]... a more interesting thing to think about than anything raised by other posters on this thread so far.

Just remember; WE ALL have much much room to grow; and, we all have prejudices; some unknown to us.

@divegeester said
It’s been a museum for donkey’s years, before you were even born and a mosque for centuries before that, but I don’t suppose you’ve batted an eyelid about that.

I had actually acknowledged this in my previous post above this:

(1) Yeah, it feels as bad as a personal insult for a sacred space to be converted into a mosque, whether it's the first time or the second time. And no, it was not satisfactory that it was a museum, either, but it is far better than being a place where actively a religious service alien to its original purpose takes place.