@suziannesaid Didn't you know? All homosexuals are pedophiles. This is what the Christian right wants you to believe. They already know you don't condone pedophilia, so they are trying to shoehorn homosexuality into this so that you reject it, too.
Hi Suzianne, thanks for jumping in, I'm not going to fall for the old shoehorn trick...As I have traversed the rocky road of life some of my best friends have been gay, and I've a gay niece who I'd jump in front of a train for, oddly enough though, none of them have been pedophiles, or thieves for that matter, or liars...Funny, that.
@fmfsaid I don't think all people on the Christian right want you to believe that all homosexuals are paedophiles. Some do, no doubt. But there are people on the Christian right who understand the concept of informed consent, just like their counterparts on the left do.
What I think all people on the Christian right DO agree on is that both practising homosexuals and paedophiles are committing "sin" ~ transgressing God's will ~ according to their Christian beliefs.
And hello Mr FMF; seems like the Christian right thinks just about everything's a sin. I hope making a cup of tea isn't a sin, or my day's off to a really bad start....
@rajk999said Wrong about me trying diversion tactics. Your point about justifying homosexuality is that it is in the nature of the person to be that way, and they cannot be any thing else. I then pointed out that it is also in the nature of certain people to be gluttonous, to be liars, to steal, to be adulterers and fornicators, to be child molesters. Scientific research into these qualit ...[text shortened]... e. You will help him.
All people do good and evil. God will judge. This conversation is over now.
It isn't over 'til it's over, but okay, it's over.
@indonesia-philsaid And hello Mr FMF; seems like the Christian right thinks just about everything's a sin. I hope making a cup of tea isn't a sin, or my day's off to a really bad start....
Yes. If the Bible made it clear that making a cup of tea was a "sin", it would be bad news for the tea drinkers of the world but... what makes the Christian right (and left) what they are (and think), is rooted their stances on stuff that's in the Bible. I don't think scripture can be used to argue that things like homosexual sex and abortion are not "sins".
I think this trumps any of the difficult stuff in the OT. There isn't a clause in that commandment to exclude people from that love, whose lifestyles are different from our own.
I think this trumps any of the difficult stuff in the OT. There isn't a clause in that commandment to exclude people from that love, whose lifestyles are different from our own.
Paul gave the church the advice to excommunicate unbelievers or people who continue with gross sins. Im not sure exactly what that meant and Im sure that directive is subject to abuse by church leaders.
I think this trumps any of the difficult stuff in the OT. There isn't a clause in that commandment to exclude people from that love, whose lifestyles are different from our own.
The exhortation "Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself" surely does not mean that a Christian needs to deny that a neighbour who is engaging in homosexual sex, according to Christian beliefs, is "sinning" and that the sex in "sinful", right?
Do you believe that God views the act of same gender sexual intercourse as sin?
Edit: for transparency as I know you are paranoid about me ... I believe that the bible is absolutely unequivocal that under both the old and new covenants as described in both written testaments, that homosexual and lesbian (if there is a semantic differentiation) sex is a sin.
@divegeestersaid Do you believe that God views the act of same gender sexual intercourse as sin?
Edit: for transparency as I know you are paranoid about me ... I believe that the bible is absolutely unequivocal that under both the old and new covenants as described in both written testaments, that homosexual and lesbian (if there is a semantic differentiation) sex is a sin.
Did Jesus himself directly address the specific question of homosexual acts?
And no, I am not answering for Suzianne. (I know you are paranoid about that). I provided the original quote:
I'm answering for the bloke next door, not that I fancy him or anything, but he reckons that the bible is a bit old fashioned in its' views about gayness. I mean it was written a few thousand years ago, and stoning people to death went out of vogue ages ago, so, you know, it could be said to be a dodgy thing with which to set ones' moral compass. Anyway that's what he reckons, and come to think of it I agree with him. (His name's Fred, by the way) (Or is it Harry?)
@indonesia-philsaid I'm answering for the bloke next door, not that I fancy him or anything, but he reckons that the bible is a bit old fashioned in its' views about gayness. I mean it was written a few thousand years ago, and stoning people to death went out of vogue ages ago, so, you know, it could be said to be a dodgy thing with which to set ones' moral compass. Anyway that's what he reckons, and come to think of it I agree with him. (His name's Fred, by the way) (Or is it Harry?)
Yes it is a dodgy thing to set ones moral compass using the bible, because the bible contains two different sets of guidelines. One is for the Jew ONLY, in the time of Moses. Even some Christians fail to realise that. The other law [of Christ] is for all people. The reason for this is that the death of Christ eliminated the need for constant sacrifices and a multitude of laws, regulations and guidelines and punishment, which Paul described as a burden. Jesus and the Aposltes all simplified the new law under Christ and here it is:
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. (Galatians 5:14 KJV)
Jesus said that this is the one critical thing by which all men will be judged. However sins remain, and Jesus's advice regarding this is to STOP, and go and sin no more.
@ghost-of-a-dukesaid Did Jesus himself directly address the specific question of homosexual acts?
And no, I am not answering for Suzianne. (I know you are paranoid about that). I provided the original quote:
'Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.'
Many sins are not directly addressed by Christ. The reason is that Jesus preached to the Jews only, and never ventured out to the Gentiles who did not have the Law of Moses. The Jews knew the Law and they know homosexuality's is a sin; no need to repeat that. So Jesus naturally focused on what the Jews needed to hear so that they will change and be able to enter the Kingdom of God.