Spirituality

Spirituality

  1. Standard membervivify
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    12 Jun '19 04:53
    @sonship said
    He Used To Be Trans—Here’s What He Wants Everyone To Know

    Man raised transgender for over 40 years speaks of his recovery and regrets and warns.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlRkLtKqSrY

    Brave new scientific world or emerging nightmare dis-utopia ?
    This video isn't evidence of anything. This is a man who was made to change his gender as 4 year old. That affected him up until he chose to physically alter himself.

    This man in the video didn't decide for himself to be trans; this was ingrained in him as a small child, which is wrong.

    His situation was horrible, but doesn't represent the struggle of people who've decided on their own that they should be a different gender. This video is grossly misleading.
  2. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    12 Jun '19 06:59
    @thinkofone said
    It is OK for you to disagree with the Bible.

    By all means, if you reject the Bible, you can continue in your rejection. This is not what our discussion is about.


    Read my post again . What I reject is the interpretation of the Bible to which you subscribe. It is an interpretation that attracts those who have a homophobic orientation.

    [b]I am merely pointin ...[text shortened]... ly you have chosen a Christian tradition that lines up with your homophobic orientation. Not all do.
    There is no "tradition" which affirms same sex relationships and couples or transgenderism.

    There is zero.

    Why do you think that is?

    Do you have any argument to make at all?
  3. Joined
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    12 Jun '19 09:351 edit
    @philokalia said
    There is no "tradition" which affirms same sex relationships and couples or transgenderism.

    There is zero.

    Why do you think that is?

    Do you have any argument to make at all?
    Clearly you are ignorant about this topic.

    For example:

    At the same time, in the past two decades, several other religious groups also have moved to allow same-sex couples to marry within their traditions. This includes the Reform and Conservative Jewish movements, the Unitarian Universalist Association and the United Church of Christ.


    And the list is growing: Clergy from the Episcopal Church will be able to perform same-sex marriage ceremonies after the church’s General Convention recently approved a new definition of marriage. Another mainline Protestant denomination, the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.), voted to formally sanction same-sex marriage earlier this year.

    Among the four largest mainline Protestant churches, the same-sex marriage debate has not been simple. The United Methodist Church, the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA), the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) (not to be confused with the Presbyterian Church in America, which opposes same-sex marriage) and the Episcopal Church have wrestled with the issue for years, often as part of a larger debate on the role of gays and lesbians in the church.

    The new definition of marriage for the Episcopal Church, a member of the Anglican Communion, drew “deep concern” from the archbishop of Canterbury, whose Church of England does not sanction same-sex marriage. And the debate within the Presbyterian Church has already led some congregations to break away and join other, more conservative Presbyterian denominations. Both denominations allow clergy to opt out of performing same-sex marriages, while the ELCA allows ministers and their congregations to determine their own policies.

    https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/12/21/where-christian-churches-stand-on-gay-marriage/


    Clearly you need to make more of an effort to become better informed about this topic.
  4. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    12 Jun '19 12:41
    @thinkofone said
    Clearly you are ignorant about this topic.

    For example:

    At the same time, in the past two decades, several other religious groups also have moved to allow same-sex couples to marry within their traditions. This includes the Reform and Conservative Jewish movements, the Unitarian Universalist Association and the United Church of Christ.


    And the list is gro ...[text shortened]... /


    Clearly you need to make more of an effort to become better informed about this topic.
    At the same time, in the past two decades, several other religious groups also have moved to allow same-sex couples to marry within their traditions.


    Oh yeah, that's a tradition.

    This is younger than me.

    How is that a tradition?

    If this is a 'tradition,' the Boston Red Sox are prehistoric.

    Puh-lease.
  5. Joined
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    12 Jun '19 15:501 edit
    @philokalia said
    At the same time, in the past two decades, several other religious groups also have moved to allow same-sex couples to marry within their traditions.


    Oh yeah, that's a tradition.

    This is younger than me.

    How is that a tradition?

    If this is a 'tradition,' the Boston Red Sox are prehistoric.

    Puh-lease.
    As philokalia is trying to defend the indefensible, he has illogically tried to defend his position with a lame semantical argument about the word "tradition" wrapped in a non sequitur.

    Can't say as I really expected philokalia to be able to discuss this topic in a reasonable manner. There really is no sense in trying to reason with a bigot. Be it racism, misogyny, homophobia or what have you, the views of bigots are rooted in irrational fear.

    The following still stands:
    Only those having a homophobic orientation hold that view and interpret the Bible in such a way as you have repeatedly done on this thread. A homophobic orientation is wrong and it is not part of a good lifestyle in the least...Unsurprisingly you have chosen a Christian tradition that lines up with your homophobic orientation.
  6. SubscriberGhost of a Dukeonline
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    12 Jun '19 16:43
    @philokalia said
    Oh yes, I am a very fallen person and full of my own sins. I am not a good person at all. I would never ask anyone to believe that of me.

    However, let's not think about me...

    God clearly condemns homosexuality, correct?

    God wants us to be a light to the world, correct?

    It is proper for Christians to speak out against LGBTQ and seek the salvation of these peo ...[text shortened]... by encouraging them to abandon their sinful ways, just as we would do this for all sinners, correct?
    Two pertinent passages:

    "...with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another in love." (Ephesians 4:2)


    "As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand." (Romans 14:1-4)
  7. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    12 Jun '19 23:29
    @ghost-of-a-duke said
    Two pertinent passages:

    "...with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another in love." (Ephesians 4:2)


    "As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let ...[text shortened]... he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand." (Romans 14:1-4)
    Oh, so we have Ghost of a Duke, who is not a Christian, trying to cherrypick and use parts of the Bible to shut up a Christian.

    How about some other passages?:

    1 Corinthians 15:33 ESV / 10 helpful votes
    Do not be deceived: “Bad company ruins good morals.”

    Psalm 1:1 ESV / 8 helpful votes
    Blessed is the man who walks not in the counsel of the wicked, nor stands in the way of sinners, nor sits in the seat of scoffers;

    2 Timothy 3:5 ESV / 7 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful
    Having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people.

    2 Corinthians 6:14 ESV / 6 helpful votes
    Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness?

    Proverbs 24:1 ESV / 6 helpful votes
    Be not envious of evil men, nor desire to be with them,

    2 Thessalonians 3:6 ESV / 5 helpful votes
    Now we command you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is walking in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us.


    One of my favorites:

    Isaiah 5:20
    Beware, those who call evil good and good evil, who turn darkness into light and light into darkness, who turn bitter into sweet and sweet into bitter.


    The Bible has to be understood holistsically.

    And it is true, we must interact with people in humility and gentleness, particularly those who are among us in our Church, and it is also true that for something like dietary disagreements we are not to think of someone as an utter alien to us.

    But what of homosexuality.

    It's clear what the Bible says.
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    12 Jun '19 23:54
    @philokalia said
    Oh, so we have Ghost of a Duke, who is not a Christian, trying to cherrypick and use parts of the Bible to shut up a Christian.

    How about some other passages?:

    [quote]1 Corinthians 15:33 ESV / 10 helpful votes
    Do not be deceived: “Bad company ruins good morals.”

    Psalm 1:1 ESV / 8 helpful votes
    Blessed is the man who walks not in the counsel of the wicke ...[text shortened]... someone as an utter alien to us.

    But what of homosexuality.

    It's clear what the Bible says.
    None of the passages that you have 'cherry - picked' has anything to do with homosexuality, or any sexuality at all, actually, unless you equate homosexuality with 'evil' or 'wickedness', which is your choice. I suggest that you stop trying to blame your bible for your own bigotry. I think I've said it before; try to think for yourself. To discriminate against people for their sexual orientation is no different from discriminating against people for the colour of their eyes. We are that which we are, and if you believe that your god made us all, then he made us all, did he not?
  9. Standard membercaissad4
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    12 Jun '19 23:581 edit
    @philokalia said
    There is no "tradition" which affirms same sex relationships and couples or transgenderism.

    There is zero.

    Why do you think that is?

    Do you have any argument to make at all?
    Since you don't live in the USA you are probably not aware that the Native Americans here have a tradition (yes a tradition) dating back over 1000 years. Google "Two Spirit" and read & learn.
    No argument from me, just fact.
  10. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    13 Jun '19 00:53
    @caissad4 said
    Since you don't live in the USA you are probably not aware that the Native Americans here have a tradition (yes a tradition) dating back over 1000 years. Google "Two Spirit" and read & learn.
    No argument from me, just fact.
    Sure, but good luck proving its longevity as there just aren't written records or insights into the history of social rules and roles in those communities.

    I do take your point, though. But this is a topic that would require expert knowledge, I think, to fully grasp. At a later date, I hope to read extensively about this phenomena.

    But let's also keep in mind:

    Christianity can definitely be said to have had a highly critical view of homosexuality since its inception, and this goes back to the Torah.
  11. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    13 Jun '19 00:55
    @indonesia-phil said
    None of the passages that you have 'cherry - picked' has anything to do with homosexuality, or any sexuality at all, actually, unless you equate homosexuality with 'evil' or 'wickedness', which is your choice. I suggest that you stop trying to blame your bible for your own bigotry. I think I've said it before; try to think for yourself. To discriminate against people f ...[text shortened]... re that which we are, and if you believe that your god made us all, then he made us all, did he not?
    Aw, but you see:

    - The passages about homosexuality in the Old & New Testament have already been brought up and addressed, and no one has dismissed their validity.
    - The approach of commenters here was to make it sound like you shouldn't be critical of homosexuality. Rather, you should be unconditionally welcoming and perhaps just not mention it.
    - I have only pointed out that we need to mention it.

    I mention issues of my sex life and my moral life all the time to my spiritual father in my Church, who advises me, and I follow all of his advice and report back to him accurately and fully on it.

    If I make a gross failure, I could be barred from communion.

    This is the Christian tradition as it is present in Orthodoxy.

    It is the oldest Christian tradition.
  12. Standard membercaissad4
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    13 Jun '19 01:48
    @philokalia said
    Sure, but good luck proving its longevity as there just aren't written records or insights into the history of social rules and roles in those communities.

    I do take your point, though. But this is a topic that would require expert knowledge, I think, to fully grasp. At a later date, I hope to read extensively about this phenomena.
    You should have followed my search suggestion then you would not have made that erroneous first statement.
    Spend ten minutes looking at my suggestion.
  13. SubscriberSuzianne
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    13 Jun '19 02:291 edit
    @philokalia said
    Aw, but you see:

    - The passages about homosexuality in the Old & New Testament have already been brought up and addressed, and no one has dismissed their validity.
    - The approach of commenters here was to make it sound like you shouldn't be critical of homosexuality. Rather, you should be unconditionally welcoming and perhaps just not mention it.
    - I ...[text shortened]... is the Christian tradition as it is present in Orthodoxy.

    It is the oldest Christian tradition.
    What about passages in the Old Testament which advise stoning for adulterers? Isn't this addressed by Jesus himself in John 8, when he tells the adulterous woman, "Neither do I condemn thee; go, and sin no more."

    As I said the first time I brought this up a page ago, you apparently do not care that we are now under a different covenant than the Jews, we are told it is more important that we have love for one another than it is to merely condemn by the law. All you want to do is condemn; never mind the new covenant. Maybe you can find the courage to address this now on page seven when you ignored it on page six.
  14. Standard membercaissad4
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    13 Jun '19 02:36
    @suzianne said
    What about passages in the Old Testament which advise stoning for adulterers? Isn't this addressed by Jesus himself in John 8, when he tells the adulterous woman, "Neither do I condemn thee; go, and sin no more."

    As I said the first time I brought this up a page ago, you apparently do not care that we are now under a different covenant than the Jews, we are told i ...[text shortened]... . Maybe you can find the courage to address this now on page seven when you ignored it on page six.
    I wonder how many of these "devout Christian men" have defied their religion and "spilled their seed' ??
    Hypocrites abound.
  15. SubscriberFMF
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    13 Jun '19 02:40
    @philokalia said
    Oh, so we have Ghost of a Duke, who is not a Christian, trying to cherrypick and use parts of the Bible to shut up a Christian.
    Or, maybe he's trying to engage in debate and discussion with you on a debate and discussion forum. He's trying to "shut up a Christian"?? What's with all these glass-chinned religionists we have here in this community?
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