Is there such a thing as …

There such a thing as natural law?

This smacks of another one of KellyJay’s “my opinions aren’t opinions, they are truth” threads.

@kellyjay said
There such a thing as natural law?

Whether our consciences were created by some kind of entity and morals in orbit of the "Golden Rule" were installed in humans - and we call that "natural law" - or whether our moral imperatives evolved in us as a communal species because of our cognitive capacities and our survival instinct - and we call that "natural law" - I don't really see how these scenarios are affected by the terminology we attach to them.

@kellyjay said
There such a thing as natural law?

Assuming you use the standard definition. "A body of unchanging moral principles regarded as a basis for all human conduct" I say "yes" there is such a thing. As I posted here a short time ago:

Even Gentiles, who do not have God’s written law, show that they know his law when they instinctively obey it, even without having heard it. They demonstrate that God’s law is written in their hearts, for their own conscience and thoughts either accuse them or tell them they are doing right. Romans 2:14-15 🙂

@mchill said
Even Gentiles, who do not have God’s written law, show that they know his law when they instinctively obey it, even without having heard it. They demonstrate that God’s law is written in their hearts, for their own conscience and thoughts either accuse them or tell them they are doing right. Romans 2:14-15 🙂

I am not sure what your analysis is worth. Here's what you said a week or two ago:

People come to believe that because God wrote the law on their hearts, people who have never read the Bible instinctively know there is a God.

Ludicrous.

@mchill said

Even Gentiles, who do not have God’s written law, show that they know his law when they instinctively obey it, even without having heard it. They demonstrate that God’s law is written in their hearts, for their own conscience and thoughts either accuse them or tell them they are doing right. Romans 2:14-15

Yes, he is speaking about Gentiles, not Christians specifically.

“…for their own conscience and thoughts either accuse them or tell them they are doing right.”

Absolutely, the general non-biblical term is referred to as “using one’s moral compass”.

@fmf said
I am not sure what your analysis is worth. Here's what you said a week or two ago:

People come to believe that because God wrote the law on their hearts, people who have never read the Bible instinctively know there is a God.

Ludicrous.

I'm sorry you feel that way, I would point out however that there are several billion people on this planet (myself included) who do not.

@divegeester said
Yes, he is speaking about Gentiles, not Christians specifically.

“…for their own conscience and thoughts either accuse them or tell them they are doing right.”

Absolutely, the general non-biblical term is referred to as “using one’s moral compass”.

He was speaking about Gentiles, who didn't know the law of God as the Jews did.
It was the Jews who had the law of God, hand delivered by God or written down
by those God gave it to. An intrinsic value system everyone has would be one's
moral compass I'd agree.

@kellyjay said
He was speaking about Gentiles, who didn't know the law of God as the Jews did.

No, that’s not what the scripture says kellyjay.

@divegeester said
No, that’s not what the scripture says kellyjay.

Quote it to me dive!

@kellyjay said
Quote it to me dive!

Mchill already has.

As you like to say to me… “try to keep up” 😉

@divegeester said
Mchill already has.

As you like to say to me… “try to keep up” 😉

I see the wording supporting what I say, not what you do, so this is another example
of you casting your opinion as if it's the gospel truth while you ignore the gospel?

@kellyjay said
There such a thing as natural law?

What's your answer to this question?

@kellyjay said
I see the wording supporting what I say, not what you do, so this is another example
of you casting your opinion as if it's the gospel truth while you ignore the gospel?

Romans 2:14-15
New King James Version
Here’s the scripture under discussion and which we are referring to:

Romans 2 14-15
…for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them

Where does this scripture support your claim that these specific gentiles did not know the law as well as the Jews? THESE gentiles we are talking about, the ones with “God’s law written on their hearts”.


By the way … I know exactly what your motivation is for you wanting to infer that the Jews has some knowledge of the law other than what these gentiles had who had the law of God written on their hearts!

@divegeester said
Romans 2:14-15
New King James Version
Here’s the scripture under discussion and which we are referring to:

[i]Romans 2 14-15
…for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and b ...[text shortened]... wledge of the law other than what these gentiles had who had the law of God written on their hearts!

Did you even read the quote? Who is He talking to, those that had the law, and
who did He reference as those that didn't, "...for when Gentiles." Are you so blind
that even when you quote these words you still don't see them?