1. Joined
    28 Oct '05
    Moves
    34587
    27 Mar '21 09:19
    What part do intuition and instinct play in the presence and absence of theist faith?
  2. SubscriberRagwort
    Senecio Jacobaea
    Yorkshire
    Joined
    04 Jul '09
    Moves
    185564
    28 Mar '21 05:472 edits
    @FMF

    If it's true that there has never been a coherent human culture without religion, whether theistic or not, then I would probably argue that it's mostly instinctual and the actual beliefs are incidental. If there's now a sense of emerging from this because the current religions are based on narratives 2000 years or more old it's difficult to determine whether this is because the religions have simply reached their natural limits of adaptability. The question is then whether humanity can now be done with them altogether or if they are so necessary to successful human societies that a more "suitable" one will be along shortly.
  3. Joined
    28 Oct '05
    Moves
    34587
    28 Mar '21 06:50
    @ragwort said
    The question is then whether humanity can now be done with them altogether or if they are so necessary to successful human societies that a more "suitable" one will be along shortly.
    As in, have religions served their purpose or do societies still need them?
  4. SubscriberRagwort
    Senecio Jacobaea
    Yorkshire
    Joined
    04 Jul '09
    Moves
    185564
    28 Mar '21 07:45
    @FMF

    Yes.

    I think when you become sceptical of the religion of your birth, you begin to see how the various social and psychological factors (manipulations?) play out in real time and have a sense of how ritual and religious experiences are exchanged for one's fealty.

    Can we live in a blind aimless universe without imposing some form of religious narrative on it?
  5. Joined
    28 Oct '05
    Moves
    34587
    28 Mar '21 08:07
    @ragwort said
    Can we live in a blind aimless universe without imposing some form of religious narrative on it?
    Some people can; some people can't. In terms of my own moral compass, I cannot separate it from my own religious socialization, despite gradually realizing I was an agnostic atheist in the late 1990s and early 2000s.

    Furthermore, perhaps I should be grateful for my safety [among other things] which is arguably enhanced and guarded by the fact that the culture here where I live has had the Islamic religious narrative "imposed" on it and all the beneficial aspects of social order that come with it.
  6. Joined
    16 Feb '08
    Moves
    116436
    28 Mar '21 08:22
    @ragwort said
    @FMF

    I think when you become sceptical of the religion of your birth, you begin to see how the various social and psychological factors (manipulations?) play out in real time and have a sense of how ritual and religious experiences are exchanged for one's fealty.
    Do you me transacted, rather than “exchanged”?
  7. Joined
    16 Feb '08
    Moves
    116436
    28 Mar '21 08:26
    @fmf said
    Furthermore, perhaps I should be grateful for my safety [among other things] which is arguably enhanced and guarded by the fact that the culture here where I live has had the Islamic religious narrative "imposed" on it and all the beneficial aspects of social order that come with it.
    This is interesting; are you saying you would rather live under religious rule that secular, in general terms, or only under specific measures, specific levels of control, laws etc?
  8. Joined
    28 Oct '05
    Moves
    34587
    28 Mar '21 08:58
    @divegeester said
    This is interesting; are you saying you would rather live under religious rule that secular, in general terms, or only under specific measures, specific levels of control, laws etc?
    All I am saying is that I live in a well-ordered society. Here, neighborliness and community and certain aspects of decorum seem to me to be rooted in and shaped by religion. If it had not been the case, living here might have been more precarious. I also lived in Japan for a long time and there was order and decorum - and a lack of precariousness - there too, but it was a form of social order that was not so overtly rooted in religious belief, at least not in recent generations, as it is, by Indonesian standards, a "Godless" culture.
  9. SubscriberRagwort
    Senecio Jacobaea
    Yorkshire
    Joined
    04 Jul '09
    Moves
    185564
    28 Mar '21 15:19
    @divegeester said
    Do you me transacted, rather than “exchanged”?
    I guess I'm happy with either.

    It's the psychological and social mechanisms at play here which interest me the most - if only to understand my own overtly religious upbringing in a non supernatural context - and perhaps some of my reactions since.
  10. Joined
    28 Oct '05
    Moves
    34587
    28 Mar '21 23:35
    @ragwort said
    It's the psychological and social mechanisms at play here which interest me the most - if only to understand my own overtly religious upbringing in a non supernatural context - and perhaps some of my reactions since.
    Well, one of the reasons that Christianity is so successful is that much of the moral code it promotes is effective and commonsensical, even without buying into the narratives that make claims regarding supernatural phenomena and beings. This would explain the permanent impact of my own "overtly religious upbringing" regardless of my loss of faith.
  11. Joined
    16 Feb '08
    Moves
    116436
    29 Mar '21 01:14
    The three contributors to the this thread this far each had a strongly religious upbringing so perhaps we are not the best examples of a having an intuitive or instinctive faith.
  12. Joined
    28 Oct '05
    Moves
    34587
    29 Mar '21 02:151 edit
    @divegeester said
    The three contributors to the this thread this far each had a strongly religious upbringing so perhaps we are not the best examples of a having an intuitive or instinctive faith.
    I think, assuming Ragwort's history of belief is comparable to mine, that "intuition and instinct" played a role in whatever faith we had in the past and "intuition and instinct" also play a role in our agnosticism and/or atheism now.
Back to Top

Cookies help us deliver our Services. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. Learn More.I Agree