Be it through mathematics, archology, numerology, biology, genealogy, paleontology or any other arts and sciences, people have been digging around for centuries for proof of God's existence. Well folks, that's A-OK with me, and I'll admit, it's led to some scientific breakthroughs, but IMHO it's running in the wrong direction.
A young rabbi once said "If one has to dig up archeological relics to justify their faith....how much faith do they have to begin with?" This ties in nicely with John 29:20 when Thomas doubted he was seeing the resurrected Jesus. Once Jesus showed him the marks on his hands and feet, only then did Thomas believe. Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
@mchillsaid This ties in nicely with John 29:20 when Thomas doubted he was seeing the resurrected Jesus. Once Jesus showed him the marks on his hands and feet, only then did Thomas believe. Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
If it comes down to faith for you, why are pretending to talk about "proof"? The Thomas story is not "proof" of anything. It is merely encouraging people to have faith without "proof".
If there is, indeed, any proof - or what may be possible evidence - of God's existence, then it is found in the nature of the universe and perhaps human consciousness. Its there in plain sight for us to make of what we will.
What do stories about "Thomas" and "Jesus" and "the marks on his hands and feet" ~ and, for that matter, the notion of being "blessed" ~ have to do with it?
@mchillsaid A young rabbi once said "If one has to dig up archeological relics to justify their faith....how much faith do they have to begin with?"
One can literally imagine anything, subscribe to anything, or assert anything and use it to "justify" one's faith in whatever supernatural being or phenomena you want.
"How much faith" someone has is not evidence/proof of anything.
If you have faith with 'archeology' or without 'archeology', what does it matter?
@mchillsaid Be it through mathematics, archology, numerology, biology, genealogy, paleontology or any other arts and sciences, people have been digging around for centuries for proof of God's existence. Well folks, that's A-OK with me, and I'll admit, it's led to some scientific breakthroughs, but IMHO it's running in the wrong direction.
A young rabbi once said "If one has to dig up ...[text shortened]... use you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
I agree. How much faith do they have to begin with, if they think they need some kind of "proof"? Where there are artifacts that people claim prove the existence of God, there are con men, looking for a fast buck. The fact remains that we can never have proof of God. Air-tight proof of God means we have no choice to believe or to not believe. This goes against God's plan of free will so that no man can say he was coerced into or out of believing. It's on us, and no one else, and therefore we'll never have absolute proof of God. This is what is meant by John 20:29 (which I'm sure you meant, there is no John 29.)
@fmfsaid One can literally imagine anything, subscribe to anything, or assert anything and use it to "justify" one's faith in whatever supernatural being or phenomena you want.
"How much faith" someone has is not evidence/proof of anything.
If you have faith with 'archeology' or without 'archeology', what does it matter?
How much faith one has is a matter between them and God, no one else. But if one claims to need proof, their faith is obviously lacking.
This should be clear to anyone, except maybe those looking to heap scorn on someone, you know, for scorn's sake. If you just want to claim that no one should listen to him, then you should post your own thread and say exactly that, instead of this integrity-free path you did take.
@suziannesaid If you just want to claim that no one should listen to him, then you should post your own thread and say exactly that, instead of this integrity-free path you did take.
This seemed to me to be the right thread in which to respond to mchill's OP. I don't see the need to start a new thread of my own in order to address what he said.
@suziannesaid How much faith one has is a matter between them and God, no one else. But if one claims to need proof, their faith is obviously lacking.
This should be clear to anyone, except maybe those looking to heap scorn on someone, you know, for scorn's sake. If you just want to claim that no one should listen to him, then you should post your own thread and say exactly that, instead of this integrity-free path you did take.
If you just want to claim that no one should listen to him...
@suziannesaid This should be clear to anyone, except maybe those looking to heap scorn on someone, you know, for scorn's sake.
"Scorn"?
If you have faith with 'archeology' or without 'archeology', what does it matter?
As a person who, presumably, has faith without 'archeology', do you feel any "scorn" for those whose faith is, to some degree, dependent on 'archeology'?
@mchillsaid Be it through mathematics, archology, numerology, biology, genealogy, paleontology or any other arts and sciences, people have been digging around for centuries for proof of God's existence. Well folks, that's A-OK with me, and I'll admit, it's led to some scientific breakthroughs, but IMHO it's running in the wrong direction.
A young rabbi once said "If one has to dig up ...[text shortened]... use you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
Christians dont spend time digging for evidence of God. That is the pastime of nonChristians, who fall into two groups, those who would like to believe but need evidence and those who want to ridicule those who believe.
I have not been demanding absolute proof. To have proof of anything in an absolute way requires omniscience which no human being has.
To have indications I am on the right track to believe in His existence is good enough.
There is the matter of fellowship, communion with God via my praying organ of the human spirit. But that is aside.
To have confidence one is on the right track to believe in God is adequate.
Does anyone have mathematical like proof that God does not exist?
Publish here your formula, cut to the chase and end the discussion if you have such indisputable proof of the non-existence of God.
@mchillsaid A young rabbi once said "If one has to dig up archeological relics to justify their faith....how much faith do they have to begin with?"
It's not to justify their faith it's to defend it.
As time progresses, the power that Christianity has on the western world has diminished. This is partly due to academics attacking the legitimacy of Christianity and religion in general.
Christian communities have seen their influence in the world gradually slip away partly due to scientists casting doubt on Biblical claims, such as the 6-day creation. So Christians have retaliated by trying to defend their faith with science, including archeological research.
Digging around for proof of God's existence
29 Jul '21 08:171 edit
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