Christianity After the Rapture

@KellyJay

I do believe we play a part, prayer is one of the most important parts of our walk. Of late the focus of our morning prayers (wife and I) are for God to give us eyes that see and ears that hear what the Lord is showing us. So we can do the works He has for us, as the Spirit leads us and guides us.

Above I said that God will both answer our prayers and reward our prayers (Matt. 6:6) .

I think though we overlooked it in the past, the two men in the field and the two women at the grinding may have differences in prayer life. If one is taken it may be because the habit of near continuous prayer has been learned.

I do not mean that one is constantly on their knees or in their private room praying. But I mean one stays in an atmosphere of the Lord's presence through frequent turning of the heart to prayer.

Now the NT said to "pray without ceasing" . That means to pray without stopping. By experience some count this as a kind of breathing in the Spirit continually. That is so that one is close in heart to God ready to speak to God instantly.

Always rejoice,
Unceasingly pray,
In everything give thanks; for this is the will in Christ Jesus of God for you.

Do not quench the Spirit;
Do not despise prophecies,... (1 Thess. 5:16-20)

See? This must be a kind of BREATHING in prayer. The only way I can do this is to frequently call on the name of the Lord - "O Lord Jesus. O Lord Jesus" .

Interspersed with my calling, I praise and pray. Only in this way can I have a kind of near continuous touching the Holy Spirit. Only this comes close to praying without ceasing.

Unceasingly pray.

Thanks giving - frequently.
Breathing out His name - "O Lord Jesus. O Abba Father" helps.

Rajk999 use to rail against this as "mouth worship". He despised the idea of

Always rejoice. Unceasingly pray, In all things give thanks ..."

This will make a difference with the two men in the field - one is raptured and one is left. This will make a difference with two women grinding - one is raptured and one is left.

This may even make a difference between two on one bed sleeping at night - one is raptured and one is left. (Luke 17:34)

I tell you, In that night there will be two on one bed; the one will be taken and the other will be left. (v.34)

I believe the rapture will be easier to Christians who have learned to pray unceasingly or at least be so ready to turn their hearts to the Lord Jesus.
They developed the habit to be right there with Him. He is close to their hearts. He is near their heart and easily called in their mouth.

This is a part of walking in the Spirit. Staying in contact with the Spirit in the human spirit to always rejoice, to unceasingly pray, to give thanks easily and often, to speak for the Lord and not despise to mention His name in the spirit and truth.

@kellyjay said
Revelation 14:11
And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.”

Metaphors, right?

@kellyjay said
Matthew 13:41-43 English Standard Version (ESV)
41 The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, 42 and throw them into the fiery furnace.

More metaphors, yes?

@KellyJay

I do believe we play a part, prayer is one of the most important parts of our walk. Of late the focus of our morning prayers (wife and I) are for God to give us eyes that see and ears that hear what the Lord is showing us. So we can do the works He has for us, as the Spirit leads us and guides us.

We pray for God to work.
We pray that God would work on us.
We pray so God may work Himself into us.

He wants to wrought Himself into our personality. Prayer as you and your wife conduct help this to happen.

Our prayers in Spirit not only move God to answer and work.
But they cause God to work Himself more into our soul.

The ones taken in rapture have built up a habit to contact Jesus in prayer.
Even while the two Christians are on a bed at night in Luke 17:34 is probably because one has the mind set on the spirit. The habit to set the mind on the spirit in prayer, even in unceasing breathing like prayer allows them to sleep more in the presence of the Lord.

Notice how opposite Paul's instruction from the attitude of some people here.

"Always rejoice" rather than always complain and murmur.
"Unceasingly pray" rather than unceasingly condemn God, His word, and His people.
"In everything give thanks" rather than in everything find fault.
"For this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you"

That is learning in our circumstances to trust God can see us through and empower us to endure. This is the thing God has sovereignly arranged for you. Trust Him, This rather than remain in bitterness and blame that He doesn't care or doesn't exist.

"Do not quench the Spirit" rather than quench the Spirit at every chance you get. Remain spiritually thirsty and remain letting God's Spirit be quenched, having no ground in your being.

The exhortation is so opposite of the way of unbelievers or backsliders.

"Do not despise prophecies" This is not just predictions. This is not just prophesying of something to come. This prophesying is speaking for God. This is speaking forth for God. This is even speaking God from our of you - speaking forth the Spirit of God. Do not despise this. Do not hold in contempt speaking forth for God.

Then Paul says the God of peace will be with us.

Do not quench the Spirit; Do not despise prophecies, But prove all things, Hold fast to what is good. Abstain from every form of evil.

And the God of peace Himself sanctify you wholly, and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." (See 1 Thess. 5:19-23)

What healthy teaching for the daily walk with the Lord Jesus.
What practical guidance to prepare for the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.

@KellyJay

If you recall when Jesus brought back Lazarus from the dead, there were those that acknowledge this as true and real, and still they plotted to kill both Jesus and Lazarus.

Their opposition is to divine life. They oppose life. They oppose Christ as life - as [b]"the resurrection and the life" (John 11:25).

This religious nature is not far from any of us. It seems to be in our blood, to to speak. Left to our natural religious mind we are opposed to life. I don't mean we are opposed to the natural life we received from Adam. I mean we are reactionary to God coming to live in us. This is life indeed.

The previous matters I spoke of were all LIFE Developing habits that we might enjoy walking in the realm of Christ.

Always rejoice;
Unceasignly pray,
In everything give thanks for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.
Do not quench the Spirit.
Do not despise prophecies.

But prove all things. Hold fast to what is good;
Abstain from every form of evil." (1 Thess. 5:16-22)

These are all practices for the cultivation of divine life within, that we may enjoy living Christ.

If we practice, I am sure if we are alive at that time of secret rapture we will be taken.

Whoever seeks to preserve his soul-life will lose it, and whoever loses it will preserve it alive. (Luke 17:33)

To learn these matters is to DENY the natural way to live. It is a denial of the soul-life in favor of enjoying Christ as life.

I tell you, In that night there will be two on one bed; the one will be taken but the other will be left.

There will be two women grinding together; the one will be taken but the other left.

Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other will be left."

You see Rapture is a kind of ecstatic happiness. We have to practice to be happy in the Lord. We have to deny ourselves and practice to rejoice in the Lord.

Every time we TURN our hearts to the Lord Jesus we have a mini rapture.
Every time we call on His name or turn to touch Him we have a little rapture.

So I think it is to PRACTICE being snatched away from the Lord spiritually.
Then the day may come in our lifetime that the spiritual snatching away will turn into a physical snatching away.

I do believe that we can live so as to be virtually rehearsing the rapture.
That is by the healthy life practices to deny the worldly way to live and enjoy Christ within instead.

@sonship said
You see Rapture is a kind of ecstatic happiness. We have to practice to be happy in the Lord. We have to deny ourselves and practice to rejoice in the Lord.Every time we TURN our hearts to the Lord Jesus we have a mini rapture.Every time we call on His name or turn to touch Him we have a little rapture.So I think it is to PRACTICE being snatched away from the Lord spirituall ...[text shortened]... at is by the healthy life practices to deny the worldly way to live and enjoy Christ within instead.

Somebody edited this kind of stuff out of the Sermon on the Mount presumably.

@fmf said
Metaphors, right?

I don’t believe so, but to you it would be no different either way as you reject God.

@FMF

Somebody edited this kind of stuff out of the Sermon on the Mount presumably.

Not at all.

"Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God." (Matt. 5:8)

@KellyJay

Now its easy to bash those that did these things, but it was brought up in a prayer meeting I was at, "I wonder what God is trying to show me, that I'm blind too?"

This is a good attitude. It is to be poor in spirit.
To the poor in spirit there is the promise of the kingdom of the heavens.

Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of the heavens. (Matt. 5:3)

To realize that one may be missing something of God, I think, is a quality of being not too RICH inside but [b]"poor in spirit"{/b].

Paul said he always was stretching FORWARD to what was before.
There can be little advance if there is no hunger.

To muse - "What might we be missing of the Lord" though a man is saved, is I think to show you are still hungry. God can show such a one poor in spirit what he longs for - more of God's kingdom.

There are two categories of Christians involved in a pre-tribulation rapture.

1.) Overcoming Christians who are alive at that time.

2.) Overcoming Christians who are asleep (having deceased) at that time.

Both these groups form a minority of the majority of the church universal.

Where are the two groups seen in Revelation being raptured?

1.) The overcoming living Christians are seen having gone up as Firstfruits in Revelation 14:1-5.

2.) The overcoming deceased Christians are seen going up as a Manchild in Revelation 12:5,10,11.

This is the two major raptures of overcoming saints. The early ripening Firstfruits and the early taken up collective Manchild.

Latter I may explain that perhaps not all living pre-tribulation raptured saints are virgins. A strict reading of Revelation 14 would suggest that only virgins are included in that group of 144,000.

And some of this I am not completely clear about as I would like to be.
I plead the need for further insight if God would grant it.

But basically a minority, a remnant of the vast entire body of Christians form those both living and deceased who are taken up to Heaven before the start of the great tribulation.

Now this is what I hope to prove latter. Achtung!

The catalyst and cause for the last three and one half years of great tribulation is precisely the rapture of overcoming believers to Heaven.

The catalyst that is a CAUSE of the great tribulation IS that rapture of overcoming saints. The thing which prompts the great tribulation to commence is that very raptured of the living and deceased overcoming saints.

Some of you never heard this I think. The phrase "pre-tribulation rapture" can be misleading. That is because it is THIS RAPTURE that is the cause, the catalyst for Satan to begin to do his utmost to hold off his inevitable confinement and eternal perdition.

This can be proved in Revelation 12 when the Manchild is caught up to God's throne ( the raptured of the deceased overcoming saints). This event is a strategic advance in the spiritual warfare that causes Satan such defeat that he HAS to step up to the utmost his war against God, His people, Israel, the church left behind, and mankind in general.

Now I have to make a confession. It is not easy to do so. But I should.

I am including too many details which will very much confuse some Christians, not to mention unbelievers who are interested in Bible prophecy. I need self control not to throw too much at some of you too soon.

Forgive me if you can. But the reason (right or wrong) I do this is to keep some of you interested. I admit this. If you are still interested you may keep reading and other more practical, more edifying things we might share with one another.

I'm sorry for too much unsubstantiated (as of yet) details on prophecy. And we do not know everything by far. And we Christians have different opinions about these things.

SecondSon, how could I be of any further possible help to your exploration ?

To overcome is to rise TO the expected standard.
To be defeated is to fail to rise to the expected standard.

The standard I speak of is not the standard of eternal redemption.
That matter has been settled upon faith alone.

What is the standard precisely? It is difficult for me to say. But it obviously is clear to Jesus Christ that there is something as "HE WHO OVERCOMES".

This is seen in Revelation 2 and 3 seven times.
In the end of the BIble it is seen concerning ALL the human beings saved.

Here are the seven mysterious references to the OVERCOMING as opposed to the "defeated" or "lukewarm" or "cold" saved believers.

Revelation 2:7 - "To him who OVERCOMES, to him I will give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the Paradise of God."

Revelation 2:11 - "He who OVERCOMES shall by no means be hurt of the second death."

Revelation 2:17 - "To him who OVERCOMES, to him I will give of the hidden manna, and to him I will give a white stone, and upon the stone a new name written, which no one knows except him who receives it."

Revelation 3:26 - "And he who OVERCOMES and who keeps My works until the end, to him I will give authority over the nations; And he will shepherd them with an iron rod, as vessels of pottery are broken in pieces, as I also have received of My Father,"

Revelation 3:5 - "He who OVERCOMES will be clothed thus, in white garments, and I shall by no means erase his name out of the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels."

Revelation 3:12 - "He who OVERCOMES, him I will make a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall by no means go out anymore, and I will write upon him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which descends out of heaven from My God, and My new name."

Revelation 3:21 - "He who OVERCOMES, to him I will give to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat with My Father on His throne."

Seven promises to the seven churches to give some particular reward to those who OVERCOME. This is an overcoming that means a NORMAL Christian victory not super spirituality.

@sonship said
Now I have to make a confession. It is not easy to do so. But I should.

I am including too many details which will very much confuse some Christians, not to mention unbelievers who are interested in Bible prophecy. I need self control not to throw too much at some of you too soon.

Forgive me if you can. But the reason (right or wrong) I do this is to keep some of you in ...[text shortened]... about these things.

SecondSon, how could I be of any further possible help to your exploration ?

"SecondSon, how could I be of any further possible help to your exploration?"

Well, like you said, you've included a lot of detail. The interpretations of certain passages are difficult to apply spontaneously. There is the rest of the content to be considered in relationship to those verses you cited to support the interpretations you assert.

I can see some of the things you say, but others trouble me. Of course I would ask that you consider that my instructions in scripture follow traditional evangelical teachings. If what you are saying is correct I will be forced to "unlearn" some firmly held convictions. That won't happen overnight.

My personal approach to understanding scripture is systematic. Verse by verse. So, you may well imagine my consternation at grappling with these new ideas based on how you have presented them.

If you can, please give me a concise timeline of the events related to the period immediately preceding Daniel's seventieth week up to after Jesus' return, with references, then I can examine the whole picture in light of what the rest of scripture says.

Quite frankly sonship, this theologically academic approach to the study of scripture is something I've put aside recently in favor of a more practical application of the basic principles of Christian conduct and the ministering of those principles to the needs of the brothers and sisters God has graciously brought before me in the local assembly where we worship.

In other words, I want to do the work of ministry in practical matters of life, and leave the heavy theological lifting to the scholars.

@SecondSon

My comments will be brief I think.

Well, like you said, you've included a lot of detail. The interpretations of certain passages are difficult to apply spontaneously. There is the rest of the content to be considered in relationship to those verses you cited to support the interpretations you assert.

And some of these assertions can be distracting from life.
All distractions you have received from me, please put on the back burner.

Knowledge puffs up. Love builds up.
Something preoccupying you to the point that the heart toward the living Jesus gets a bit cold and confused - drop this for now.

Hold fast to what is good.

This is my general rule for Bible study: Any teaching which warms your heart up towards Jesus and makes you more dependent upon God, is a safe teaching. It is at least safe even though it may not be too accurate. It warms your love for God.

Any teaching which causes you to be cooler in love to God or draw back in independence from Jesus, is not a good teaching, no matter how good its sounds.

Sometimes the problem may be with the hearer.
Sometimes the problem may be with the conveyor of the teaching.
Sometimes the problem is a little bit with both parties.

If it exalts Christ and make you want to love Him more, it is at least a "safe" teaching.

If after receiving the teaching your less believing, colder in heart, and desire to be more independent from God, no matter how impressive it sounded, its not safe.

Exegesis should not amount to "EXIT Jesus. "

SecondSon,

I can see some of the things you say, but others trouble me.

I write many things prematurely which cause my brothers and sisters some trouble and misunderstanding.

Proceed with prayer to hear what God would be saying to you.

Concerning the second coming of Christ I am happy if Christians realize this:

His coming is like coming from two directions. He comes from ABOVE. And He is coming from WITHIN.

Christ's second coming is not just Him coming from ABOVE according to some calender. His coming is also a welling up from WITHIN a critical mass of His people.

This coming of Jesus is going to be like a CIRCLE broken which is being joined together again. Part of the line circle is coming DOWN from Heaven physically. The other part of the line of the circle is coming from WITHIN His church on the earth.

The two lines - one from above and the other from within; one coming down and the other coming up to meet it, join together at that event of His return.

Something like an atomic explosions critical mass being formed when two pieces of plutonium are joined together, is happening. The critical mass of Christ and the church coming together after many centuries is occuring.

Most evangelicals regard only the NUMBER of people being saved throughout the world as the major factor determining His return. This number of those receiving the gospel is an important part.

But His GROWTH within His people reaching at least a critical mass of overcoming saints built up together in life and love is a ingredient we cannot neglect.

Notice that the church of brotherly love - the church in Philadelphia does not consist of many spiritual giants. She has a little strength. But she had not denied the Lord's name. And before her an opened door into the kingdom age is set. No one can close it to them.

"I know your works; behold, I have before you an opened door which no one can shut, because you have a little power and have kept My word and have not denied My name." (Rev. 3:8)