Atonement

As a Christian, would you describe the death of Christ on the cross, for the sins of mankind, as the greatest ever act of altruism?

@ghost-of-a-duke said
As a Christian, would you describe the death of Christ on the cross, for the sins of mankind, as the greatest ever act of altruism?

Jesus said:

This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. (John 15:12-14 KJV)

A couple things are clear here
- that Jesus is laying down his life for some people, his friends
- that Jesus defines his friends as those who keep his commandments

This appears to be completely the opposite of what contemporary Christianity preaches today.

Christ died for us while we were yet His ENEMIES. He died while we were enemies of God. We were not friends. We were at enmity with God - ENIMIES.

"For if we, being enemies, were reconciled to God through the death of His Son , much more we will be saved in His life, having been reconciled." (Romans 5:10)

It will take eternity . . . it will take forever . . . to plumb the depths of the significance of what Christ did for sinners.

More than humanistic altruism, His death is the central act, the center of all time, eternity and the universe.

@sonship said
Christ died for us while we were yet His ENEMIES. He died while were were enemies of God. We were not friends. We were at enmity with God - ENIMIES.

"For if we, being enemies, were reconciled to God through the death of His Son , much more we will be saved in His life, having been reconciled." (Romans 5:10)

It will take eternity . . . it will take ...[text shortened]... manistic altruism, His death is the central act, the center of all time eternity and the universe.

Yes.

I was just trying to balance the atonement of Christ with Dive's assertion that altruistic acts do not exist.

@sonship said
Christ died for us while we were yet His ENEMIES. He died while were were enemies of God. We were not friends. We were at enmity with God - ENIMIES.

"For if we, being enemies, were reconciled to God through the death of His Son , much more we will be saved in His life, having been reconciled." (Romans 5:10)

It will take eternity . . . it will take ...[text shortened]... manistic altruism, His death is the central act, the center of all time eternity and the universe.

If you remain enemies with God then you are doomed. It is a favourite church pastime to continue on with the boast that they are sinners, filthy sinners, evil sinners, enemies of God.

But that is not what Jesus wants. Jesus wants that after you accept him and profess faith, you to repent, to change and to keep his commandments. Then and only then do you become friends of Jesus.. A friend of Jesus is a friend of God and these get eternal life. An enemy of Jesus is going to be cast out.

Therefore Jesus died for those who keep the commandments because those who dont are going to be damned anyway.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
As a Christian, would you describe the death of Christ on the cross, for the sins of mankind, as the greatest ever act of altruism?

no
while this IS a great act of selflessness
it cannot be the GREATEST act
this act was planned, premeditated

the greatest act of altruism would be an act of selflessness that was spontaneous

i do not have an example

@rookie54 said
no
while this IS a great act of selflessness
it cannot be the GREATEST act
this act was planned, premeditated

the greatest act of altruism would be an act of selflessness that was spontaneous

i do not have an example

While I would not rank acts of selflessness, there is a good example of the man who seeing live grenade drop inside their tent, dived on it a covered it with his body as that was the only way to save everyone else. I think this story came out of WWII. There most be many more like it.

@rookie54

i do not have an example

Try hard to find one.
That might be significant, to have one.

@sonship said
@rookie54

i do not have an example

Try hard to find one.
That might be significant, to have one.

Jesus gave many. Take the trouble to read the Gospel of Christ and burn all those books by Witness Lee and you will have treasure in heaven.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
As a Christian, would you describe the death of Christ on the cross, for the sins of mankind, as the greatest ever act of altruism?

Can you provide an appropriate, topic inclusive, working definition of altruism?

@divegeester said
Can you provide an appropriate, topic inclusive, working definition of altruism?

A selfless act, putting the needs of others before your own. I think personally we are surrounded by them every day of our lives. Often they are little things, someone stopping to open the door for an old lady, the person putting their spare change in a poor man's cup as they pass by with their shopping. But sometimes they are the bigger things, a stranger rushing into a burning building to save somebody, a mother taking a bullet to save the life of her child.

Altruism is not negated by a nice feeling we might get afterwards. Altruism is to act when that action is not primarily in our own interest and sometimes in our disinterest.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
A selfless act, putting the needs of others before your own. I think personally we are surrounded by them every day of our lives. Often they are little things, someone stopping to open the door for an old lady, the person putting their spare change in a poor man's cup as they pass by with their shopping. But sometimes they are the bigger things, a stranger rushing int ...[text shortened]... sm is to act when that action is not primarily in our own interest and sometimes in our disinterest.

All the time, surrounded by them, it goes on. Jesus is watching who are doing it and who are the ones making excuses. A man is better off going and giving of his time and money to help and needy case than going to church and making the pastor rich.

There was this 3 week crusade in my area prior to this Easter weekend. Seven Day Adventists I think they were, and on several nights they spend hours and hours preaching about how to give money to the church and all the blessings people get. It was sickening just to listen to them.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
A selfless act, putting the needs of others before your own. I think personally we are surrounded by them every day of our lives. Often they are little things, someone stopping to open the door for an old lady, the person putting their spare change in a poor man's cup as they pass by with their shopping. But sometimes they are the bigger things, a stranger rushing int ...[text shortened]... sm is to act when that action is not primarily in our own interest and sometimes in our disinterest.

Could you distil this down to a succinct definition so I can contribute intelligently rather than just banter about wether altruism (by perhaps another definition) exists.

@rookie54 said
no
while this IS a great act of selflessness
it cannot be the GREATEST act
this act was planned, premeditated

the greatest act of altruism would be an act of selflessness that was spontaneous

i do not have an example

But why must altruism be spontaneous?

Are you saying that planned altruism isn't nearly as good?

Why not?

@rajk999 said
Jesus gave many. Take the trouble to read the Gospel of Christ and burn all those books by Witness Lee and you will have treasure in heaven.

You're mad with Witness Lee because the Apostle Paul wrote -

"For if we, being enemies, were reconciled to God through the death of His Son , much more we will be saved in His life, having been reconciled." (Romans 5:10)

You're problem isn't with Lee. Its always been with the New Testament.
You never accepted it.