1. Joined
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    02 Feb '23 10:411 edit
    @fmf said
    Well, some Christians are Once Saved Always Saved types and others are not.
    That’s true for sure, but the non “once saved always saved” group don’t believe that a Christian loses their salvation through a lack of good works.
  2. The Ghost Chamber
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    02 Feb '23 14:34
    @fmf said
    I haven't once suggested that the Bible teaches that God's grace is "earned by works".
    You can't have it both ways. Salvation is either a free gift to the believer or it isn't.
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    02 Feb '23 21:20
    @ghost-of-a-duke said
    You can't have it both ways. Salvation is either a free gift to the believer or it isn't.
    Yes, the opportunity for "salvation" is a " "free gift" in so far as Jesus "paid" for it with his sacrifice on the cross, but genuine faith in Jesus is required in order to receive that "free gift" and faith without good works is not genuine faith.
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    02 Feb '23 21:21

    Removed by poster

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    02 Feb '23 23:41
    @divegeester said
    That’s true for sure, but the non “once saved always saved” group don’t believe that a Christian loses their salvation through a lack of good works.
    non “once saved always saved” group don’t believe that a Christian loses their salvation through a lack of good works

    The non-Once Saved Always Saved” Christians I have in mind believe, based on Bible teaching, that they must live a Christian life - walk the walk, so to speak - which involves doing good works and obeying Jesus's commandments, and they believe that believers can "fall away", lose their faith, and stop living their faith, and as such, miss out on their "free gift" of "salvation".
  6. Joined
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    03 Feb '23 05:02
    @fmf said
    non “once saved always saved” group don’t believe that a Christian loses their salvation through a lack of good works

    The non-Once Saved Always Saved” Christians I have in mind believe, based on Bible teaching, that they must live a Christian life - walk the walk, so to speak - which involves doing good works and obeying Jesus's commandments, and they believe that belie ...[text shortened]... their faith, and stop living their faith, and as such, miss out on their "free gift" of "salvation".
    They are mistaken.
  7. Joined
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    03 Feb '23 06:51
    @divegeester said
    They are mistaken.
    I once 'believed', i.e. I was indoctrinated into the Christian faith and went along with it for a bit, and I suppose I still follow the commandments; not stealing, killing anyone or coveting next doors' ox or whatever, so am I covered do you reckon?
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    03 Feb '23 07:22
    @indonesia-phil said
    I once 'believed', i.e. I was indoctrinated into the Christian faith and went along with it for a bit, and I suppose I still follow the commandments; not stealing, killing anyone or coveting next doors' ox or whatever, so am I covered do you reckon?
    Do you have any neighbours with an Ox?
  9. The Ghost Chamber
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    03 Feb '23 15:45
    @divegeester said
    Do you have any neighbours with an Ox?
    I have a neighbour with an armadillo. (True story).
  10. Joined
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    03 Feb '23 15:59
    @ghost-of-a-duke said
    I have a neighbour with an armadillo. (True story).
    Do you covet it or have any other feelings toward it?
  11. The Ghost Chamber
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    03 Feb '23 17:43
    @divegeester said
    Do you covet it or have any other feelings toward it?
    Not on a Friday.

    Ask me again on Monday.
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    03 Feb '23 20:05
    @divegeester said
    Do you have any neighbours with an Ox?
    Actually as a point of interest, yes. Oxen are used to pull carts through the banana/coconut/spice plantations around our small fishing village, for the collection of said bananas/coconuts/spices, so there are oxen aplenty around. A few years back the village had to sell its' oxen to pay legal fees to fight off an attempted Chinese land - grab, so....As part of our social program we bought two oxen for the village, Rosie and Babe. (We avoided 'Daisy' as that is the name of one of the teachers in the village school) As a further point of interest, it's said hereabouts that this is the only place in the world which uses female oxen for pulling carts, so bovine sexual equality started here.

    Some points to take away from this:

    1. There's always a story in Indonesia.

    2. Never ask an author a short question unless you're prepared for a long answer.

    3. There may be many oxen here, but I can't recall ever coveting any of them.

    4. You did ask....

    So, given our good 'works' and lack of coveting, do you reckon that I and she who is most beloved are good for eternal life, having once believed in the Christian God?
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    03 Feb '23 20:11
    @indonesia-phil said
    I once 'believed', i.e. I was indoctrinated into the Christian faith and went along with it for a bit, and I suppose I still follow the commandments; not stealing, killing anyone or coveting next doors' ox or whatever, so am I covered do you reckon?
    Thou shall not steal, I get. But coveting is yearning for something, and while yearning for things might not be the most balanced way to conduct oneself, I don't see how yearning is immoral. To say that coveting a neighbour's ox is immoral has too much of a whiff of thoughtcrimes for me.
  14. Joined
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    03 Feb '23 20:30
    @indonesia-phil said

    So, given our good 'works' and lack of coveting, do you reckon that I and she who is most beloved are good for eternal life, having once believed in the Christian God?
    Yes. But maybe not for the reasons you might immediately think.
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    03 Feb '23 20:35
    Here's another quick story whilst I think of it. There was a (salt - water) crocodile farm just up the coast from us, about twenty crocs. The owner wasn't paying the wages, so the croc attenders let the crocodiles out, so we now have crocodile - infested mangrove forests at the end of the garden, and the village kids can't swim in the sea any more.

    This is nothing to do with what we're talking about, except to say that crocodiles are 'living fossils'; giant crocs are in the fossil record from 82 million years ago, and 'modern' crocodiles appear about 7 million years ago, so the bible's assertion that the world is 6000 years old goes to prove that you shouldn't believe everything you read...

    Anyway, that's my crocodile story for the day.
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