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  1. Joined
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    08 Nov '20 09:202 edits
    @humy said
    WOW what a stupid straw man of yours!
    Why don't you just give me the evidence that what Tammy Clark & Kristen Meghan say is representative of what OSHA experts are generally saying about the so-called 'dangers' of wearing face masks?
    -answer; You obviously have none to give. You fool nobody here.

    Why haven't the OSHA NOT publicly made an official warning to all people that ...[text shortened]... A of when not to wear face masks is obviously a BS lie from right wing propaganda fake news outlets.
    You keep using the term straw man incorrectly. I am on subject and always have been.

    Watch the video I posted so you know Tammy Clark & Kristen Meghan exist and you can hear them state their credentials. Claiming they don't exist is not very intelligent. Are you going to claim they are not who they say they are? How much lying are you going to resort to simply to avoid admitting you are wrong?

    Using several lies to cover up your first one is futile. You are only going to embarrass yourself worse.

    YouTube

    https://markcrispinmiller.com/2020/10/two-osha-certified-experts-on-ppe-specialists-who-train-doctors-in-the-proper-use-of-masks-explain-why-masking-does-no-good-but-does-real-harm/
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    08 Nov '20 09:301 edit
    @metal-brain said
    You keep using the term straw man incorrectly.
    you just said "So Tammy Clark & Kristen Meghan don't exist? " thus implying I said/implied Tammy Clark & Kristen Meghan don't exist when it is obvious I did NOT said/implied Tammy Clark & Kristen Meghan don't exist and, unless you are COMPLETELY stupid, you know this.
    So, unless you are COMPLETELY stupid, this is your straw man and I am using the term straw man correctly.

    As for the rest of your post;
    I can copy and paste what I just said before that debunks it; You make no point and fool nobody here.
  3. Joined
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    08 Nov '20 13:061 edit
    @humy said
    you just said "So Tammy Clark & Kristen Meghan don't exist? " thus implying I said/implied Tammy Clark & Kristen Meghan don't exist when it is obvious I did NOT said/implied Tammy Clark & Kristen Meghan don't exist and, unless you are COMPLETELY stupid, you know this.
    So, unless you are COMPLETELY stupid, this is your straw man and I am using the term straw man correctly.

    As ...[text shortened]... can copy and paste what I just said before that debunks it; You make no point and fool nobody here.
    A straw man (sometimes written as strawman, also sometimes straw dog[1][2]) is a form of argument and an informal fallacy of having the impression of refuting an argument, meanwhile the proper idea of argument under discussion was not addressed or properly refuted.[3] One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man".

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

    Tammy Clark & Kristen Meghan are OSHA certified experts who said exactly what I said they did. Falsely claiming what they said is a lie is your lie.

    I didn't use a Straw Man argument. That is yet another lie and you know it.
  4. Joined
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    08 Nov '20 13:394 edits
    @metal-brain said
    A straw man (sometimes written as strawman, also sometimes straw dog[1][2]) is a form of argument and an informal fallacy of having the impression of refuting an argument, meanwhile the proper idea of argument under discussion was not addressed or properly refuted.[3] One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man".

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S ...[text shortened]... n

    Tammy Clark & Kristen Meghan are OSHA certified experts who said exactly what I said they did.
    That wasn't your straw man and never claimed it was but rather your "So Tammy Clark & Kristen Meghan don't exist? " comment was your straw man because it clearly implies I implied they don't exist when in fact I never implied they don't exist and it was never my argument they don't exist. Your pretence that it was my argument that they don't exist is your straw man.

    Try again.
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    08 Nov '20 16:56
    @humy said
    That wasn't your straw man and never claimed it was but rather your "So Tammy Clark & Kristen Meghan don't exist? " comment was your straw man because it clearly implies I implied they don't exist when in fact I never implied they don't exist and it was never my argument they don't exist. Your pretence that it was my argument that they don't exist is your straw man.

    Try again.
    So you knew Tammy Clark & Kristen Meghan are OSHA certified experts who said exactly what I said they did.

    Where is the lie? You called that a lie.
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    08 Nov '20 17:128 edits
    @metal-brain said
    So you knew Tammy Clark & Kristen Meghan are OSHA certified experts who said exactly what I said they did.

    Where is the lie? You called that a lie.
    That also wasn't your straw man and never claimed it was but rather what your "So Tammy Clark & Kristen Meghan don't exist? " comment implies because I never implied they don't exist.
    I never said/implied anything about whether Tammy Clark & Kristen Meghan are OSHA experts or what they said; Yet another of your new straw mans. If they said BS about wearing face masks being dangerous then, regardless of whether they are formally OSHA experts, it obviously wouldn't be the general opinion of most OSHA experts that wearing face masks is dangerous and it isn't the official OSHA position or OSHA guidelines that wearing face masks is dangerous. If you deny the latter then I say you lie and I challenge you to show evidence that the official OSHA guidelines, and not merely the hearsay of a very few obviously deranged individuals inside and/or outside OSHA who obviously don't represent the majority of OSHA experts, suggest wearing face masks is dangerous.
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    14 Nov '20 13:38
    @humy said
    That also wasn't your straw man and never claimed it was but rather what your "So Tammy Clark & Kristen Meghan don't exist? " comment implies because I never implied they don't exist.
    I never said/implied anything about whether Tammy Clark & Kristen Meghan are OSHA experts or what they said; Yet another of your new straw mans. If they said BS about wearing face masks being dang ...[text shortened]... who obviously don't represent the majority of OSHA experts, suggest wearing face masks is dangerous.
    So now it doesn't matter if they are experts. If they say something that contradicts your claim they have to be wrong.

    Let the record show that humy has disregarded expert opinion in favor of rumor.
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    14 Nov '20 15:425 edits
    @metal-brain said
    So now it doesn't matter if they are experts.
    As shown merely by the fact that it is not any part of the official OSHA guidelines that people should stop wearing face masks, the majority of OSHA experts are not making any such BS claim that wearing face masks is dangerous. So who you refer to the "experts" here above isn't the majority of experts but rather is at best a tiny cherry-picked loony minority not representative of what the majority of experts would claim and the majority of experts would actually say what that loony minority claim is false. I listen to what the majority of experts say and what the science says. You don't. You are a lying hypocrite that convinces nobody here.
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    15 Nov '20 09:02
    @humy said
    As shown merely by the fact that it is not any part of the official OSHA guidelines that people should stop wearing face masks, the majority of OSHA experts are not making any such BS claim that wearing face masks is dangerous. So who you refer to the "experts" here above isn't the majority of experts but rather is at best a tiny cherry-picked loony minority not representative o ...[text shortened]... erts say and what the science says. You don't. You are a lying hypocrite that convinces nobody here.
    They never said people should stop wearing face masks. That is a lie. Doctors wear face masks and those experts train doctors how to wear them properly. Wearing them properly is important and common people generally do NOT wear them properly or are wearing cloth masks that leak badly and are completely ineffective.

    Face masks are not supposed to be worn all day. Some masks are made with toxic chemicals and can give people cancer, especially if they wear them all day long.

    If you are going to lie at least read the article next time. You are slandering experts.
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    15 Nov '20 11:037 edits
    @metal-brain said
    They never said people should stop wearing face masks.
    Thank you for finally admitting it is not the official OSHA guidelines that people should stop wearing face masks because it isn't the majority expert opinion that it is dangerous to wear face masks.
    Face masks are not supposed to be worn all day.
    That's just BS. Wearing face masks all day doesn't impose any significant health risk and the majority of experts would agree that wearing face masks all day doesn't impose any significant health risk because there is no evidence of such a health risk.
    Some masks are made with toxic chemicals and can give people cancer, especially if they wear them all day long.
    You have shown no evidence or data showing that there is any significant risk of wear them all day long specifically because "Some masks are made with toxic chemicals" and, sorry, don't believe you. You lie.
    You are slandering experts.
    No, unlike you, I am agreeing with the majority of experts and what the science says which is why I agree with the experts that wearing face masks, including all day, is safe.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/53108405
    "..Surgeons regularly wear much heavier-duty face coverings all day without coming to harm..."

    https://www.healthychildren.org/English/health-issues/conditions/COVID-19/Pages/Mask-Mythbusters.aspx

    https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-masks-list/fact-check-false-and-misleading-information-in-post-listing-dangers-of-face-masks-idUSKBN24333G
    -and this above is from an EXPERT. Why don't you ever believe experts like the above? Its is YOU who are denying what the majority of experts say, not me.
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    18 Nov '20 01:18
    @humy said
    Thank you for finally admitting it is not the official OSHA guidelines that people should stop wearing face masks because it isn't the majority expert opinion that it is dangerous to wear face masks.
    Face masks are not supposed to be worn all day.
    That's just BS. Wearing face masks all day doesn't impose any significant health risk and the majority of experts w ...[text shortened]... believe experts like the above? Its is YOU who are denying what the majority of experts say, not me.
    Stop lying!

    Those two women NEVER suggested people stop wearing masks. It is their job to instruct doctors how to properly wear face masks because they are experts on face masks, unlike the doctors that wear them.

    You have polluted this thread with your lies. You are not worth responding to. You have already discredited yourself.
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    20 Nov '20 23:55
    @metal-brain said
    Like the Dutch government concluded, there is no evidence wearing face masks is effective.

    https://www.technocracy.news/masks-are-neither-effective-nor-safe-a-summary-of-the-science/

    The policy of mandatory wearing of face masks is faith based, not science.
    Masks alone will not stop COVID19 but are an important tool in reducing transmission. Not sure how many of these have already been posted, as I did not read the whole thread.

    - Multi-layer cloth masks block exhaled particles and virus particles. Cloth masks block large droplets and fine droplets... https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32709611/

    - Multilayer cloth masks block 50-70% of fine droplets and limit forward spread of those that are not captured ...https://arxiv.org/abs/2005.10720

    - people infected with SARS COV2 are able to infect others for 2 days prior to symptoms starting, and even when they do not have symptoms. Mask wearing reduces spread by people who are unknowingly contagious... https://www.pnas.org/content/117/30/17513

    - masks are also inhalation protection for the wearer. studies demonstrate that cloth masks reduce wearers' exposure to infections droplets through filtration... https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/JAMP.2020.1635

    - two hairstylists infected with SARS-CoV-2 interacted with 139 clients, none of whom developed infection... Stylists and clients universally wore masks as required by local ordinance... https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32673300/

    - in a study of 124 Beijing households with >1 lab-confirmed case of infection, mask use by the index patient and family contacts before the development of symptoms reduced in-house transmission by 79%!!!!! ... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7264640/

    - retrospective analysis of >1000 people.... those who reported wearing a mask experienced 70% reduced risk of infection during high risk exposure events compared to those who did not wear masks under the same circumstances. ... https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32931726/

    (THERE ARE LOTS MORE OF THESE... I won't post them all)

    - Data analysis from 200 countries including US demonstrated masks reduce mortality... https://www.ajtmh.org/content/journals/10.4269/ajtmh.20-1015

    - Economic analysis with US indicating that increased universal mask wearing by 15% could prevent the need for lockdowns and reduce economic losses by $1 trillion or 5% of GDP.... https://www.goldmansachs.com/insights/pages/face-masks-and-gdp.html

    - 89 more studies listed here... https://examine.com/topics/coronavirus-masks/research/

    - regarding the danish study referred to by Metal Brain, they looked only at the efficacy of recommending mask usage, not the efficacy of actual usage. The limitation is that the study didn't evaluate participants habits (e.g. indoor dining?) and made no claims on source control. If participants in the study are doing different things, then there are not really any good controls... Other studies show that there is a primary difference between cases and controls when you wear masks vs activities like eating and drinking where you can't wear one. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6936a5.htm

    Hope this helps clear up some arguments... Cheers.
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    21 Nov '20 16:172 edits
    @metal-brain said
    You have already discredited yourself.
    the fact you got no less than 3 thumbs down and no thumbs up for that post of yours should tell you nobody here believes you or agrees with you when you say I have discredited myself and that also should tell you it is far more likely that, at least in the minds of three of the people here, it is you who have discredited yourself.
  14. Joined
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    22 Nov '20 02:022 edits
    @wildgrass said
    Masks alone will not stop COVID19 but are an important tool in reducing transmission. Not sure how many of these have already been posted, as I did not read the whole thread.

    - Multi-layer cloth masks block exhaled particles and virus particles. Cloth masks block large droplets and fine droplets... https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32709611/

    - Multilayer cloth masks blo ...[text shortened]... ://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6936a5.htm

    Hope this helps clear up some arguments... Cheers.
    Multi-layer cloth masks? What are those? Is that another name for a surgical mask? Most people wear single layer cloth masks. You need test what most people are wearing.

    Cloth masks leak. That is why they fog up my glasses. The belief that all exhaled air goes through the fabric of the mask is false.

    The US surgeon general explained why face masks can increase the risk of getting the virus. Did you read it?

    https://www.foxnews.com/media/surgeon-general-explains-masks-public-coronavirus


    https://www.rt.com/news/507374-facebook-censor-oxford-masks/
  15. Joined
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    22 Nov '20 02:11
    @humy said
    the fact you got no less than 3 thumbs down and no thumbs up for that post of yours should tell you nobody here believes you or agrees with you when you say I have discredited myself and that also should tell you it is far more likely that, at least in the minds of three of the people here, it is you who have discredited yourself.
    Those two women NEVER suggested people stop wearing masks. It is their job to instruct doctors how to properly wear face masks because they are experts on face masks, unlike the doctors that wear them.

    You lied. Their whole profession is to guide people when they wear masks, not to discourage the use of all masks. They did point out that certain masks contain toxins that are bad for you, but only certain masks.

    They pointed out that doctors don't wear masks all day long and they dispose of their masks and NEVER reuse them. That is NOT what the general public does.

    You lied. None of the people who gave me thumbs down fact checked anything. If they had they would know you lied.
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