The science of face masks

@metal-brain said
The Dutch government studied the science and said there is no evidence face masks are effective. Nobody has proven otherwise. The science doesn't change just because it is in another country.

Interestingly, the Dutch government just made wearing facemasks mandatory in public spaces and strongly recommends to wear them in shops. They are even thinking about putting it into law to have legal means to penalize people not wearing them.

@vals-loeder said
Interestingly, the Dutch government just made wearing facemasks mandatory in public spaces and strongly recommends to wear them in shops. They are even thinking about putting it into law to have legal means to penalize people not wearing them.

which begs the rhetorical question why would they be doing that if they are currently claiming there is no evidence face masks are effective?
Answer; Regardless of whether they were claiming that before, they aren't now because they have now come to know of the good evidence that face masks are effective.

@humy said
It mentioned it. So what? What's your point?

If your best evidence is a wet wash cloth ...

It isn't. Your new stupid straw man?
That link mentioned much other more significant evidence nothing to do with wet wash cloth.

You need to prove a face masks slows down the spread

We have already shown you several links that showed the evidence which yo ...[text shortened]... ow you many other such links to the evidence but I guess you aren't interested in evidence or truth.

"That link mentioned much other more significant evidence nothing to do with wet wash cloth."

Such as? Post the link of your choice. I am waiting.

@vals-loeder said
Interestingly, the Dutch government just made wearing facemasks mandatory in public spaces and strongly recommends to wear them in shops. They are even thinking about putting it into law to have legal means to penalize people not wearing them.

What is your source of information?

@metal-brain said
"That link mentioned much other more significant evidence nothing to do with wet wash cloth."

Such as? Post the link of your choice. I am waiting.

I have already posted that link.
Here it is yet again;

https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-about-masks-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent
"...health experts say the evidence is clear that masks can help prevent the spread of COVID-19
..."

and that link then explains just some of the evidence;

"One category of evidence comes from laboratory studies of respiratory droplets and the ability of various masks to block them. An experiment using high-speed video found that hundreds of droplets ranging from 20 to 500 micrometers were generated when saying a simple phrase, but that nearly all these droplets were blocked when the mouth was covered by a damp washcloth. Another study of people who had influenza or the common cold found that wearing a surgical mask significantly reduced the amount of these respiratory viruses emitted in droplets and aerosols.

But the strongest evidence in favor of masks come from studies of real-world scenarios. “The most important thing are the epidemiologic data,” ... Because it would be unethical to assign people to not wear a mask during a pandemic, the epidemiological evidence has come from so-called “experiments of nature.

A recent study published in Health Affairs, for example, compared the COVID-19 growth rate before and after mask mandates in 15 states and the District of Columbia. It found that mask mandates led to a slowdown in daily COVID-19 growth rate, which became more apparent over time. The first five days after a mandate, the daily growth rate slowed by 0.9 percentage-points compared to the five days prior to the mandate; at three weeks, the daily growth rate had slowed by 2 percentage-points.

Another study looked at coronavirus deaths across 198 countries and found that those with cultural norms or government policies favoring mask-wearing had lower death rates.

Two compelling case reports also suggest that masks can prevent transmission in high-risk scenarios, said Chin-Hong and Rutherford. In one case, a man flew from China to Toronto and subsequently tested positive for COVID-19. He had a dry cough and wore a mask on the flight, and all 25 people closest to him on the flight tested negative for COVID-19. In another case, in late May, two hair stylists in Missouri had close contact with 140 clients while sick with COVID-19. Everyone wore a mask and none of the clients tested positive.
”

As any non-moron can see above, that link that I already posted mentions a lot more evidence than one about a wet cloth.
Such mentioned evidence and that in other links I already posted is my source of information.
So are you going to ask for my source of information yet again now I gave it twice already? Why? Are you hoping readers of you post don't notice you are just trolling by pretending we never state our sources?
If so, you convince nobody there. Why do you think other readers here keep giving you the thumbs down? Its because you fool none of them.

@humy said
I have already posted that link.
Here it is yet again;

https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-about-masks-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent
"...health experts say the evidence is clear that masks can help prevent the spread of COVID-19
..."

and that link then explains just some of the evidence;

"One category of evidence comes from laborato ...[text shortened]... do you think other readers here keep giving you the thumbs down? Its because you fool none of them.

Here is an excerpt from your link:

"Both the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the World Health Organization now recommend cloth masks for the general public, but earlier in the pandemic, both organizations recommended just the opposite. These shifting guidelines may have sowed confusion among the public about the utility of masks."

Your source of information gave conflicting advice. They were probably telling the truth the first time.
Who are the health experts? Did they question all health experts? What is a health expert anyway?

This is about the science, not the biased opinions of a few so called health experts. I provided peer reviewed articles from respected science journals. I expect the same from you.

The Dutch government studied the science and said there is no evidence face masks are effective. The science is no different in the USA and UK.

This is about science, not the opinion of Redfield, Fauci and other known liars. The testimony of known liars is not evidence.

@metal-brain said
Here is an excerpt from your link:

"Both the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the World Health Organization now recommend cloth masks for the general public, but earlier in the pandemic, both organizations recommended just the opposite. These shifting guidelines may have sowed confusion among the public about the utility of masks."

Your source of information gave conflicting advice.

the link, which is my source of information, does not gave conflicting advice there because that above isn't 'advice' but rather an assertion about a historical fact about what advice somebody else once gave and how what they advised has since changed.
What matters now is what the science says now according to the most up-to-date evidence which is that face masks are effective at slowing the spread. Just because this wasn't previously known by the science doesn't mean the science isn't currently correct now science has the required evidence that they are effective. Face masks are effective at slowing the spread. I have shown you the links for this. I have shown you my source of information. You have not shown any evidence that the evidence that shows masks are effective is false. We trust the evidence and what the science says over your opinion any day.

Now that I have demonstrated face masks have NOT been scientifically proven to be effective that lead to an inevitable question, why mandate them?

https://www.globalresearch.ca/primary-purpose-mandatory-masking-foster-fear-say-acclaimed-researchers/5726651

It is to foster fear. They don't care about saving lives. The fact they will not recommend that people get enough selenium in their diets is proof of that. Selenium is not a cure, but it is an effective preventative measure that will hasten the sickness of Covid 19 and save some lives.

@metal-brain said
Now that I have demonstrated face masks have NOT been scientifically proven to be effective

you haven't. We have. You fool none of us here.

Like the Dutch government concluded, there is no evidence wearing face masks is effective. Here are 42 peer reviewed science articles I posted. Funny how 42 articles is cherry picking..lol.

https://www.technocracy.news/masks-are-neither-effective-nor-safe-a-summary-of-the-science/

The policy of mandatory wearing of face masks is faith based, not science.

@metal-brain said
there is no evidence wearing face masks is effective.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02801-8
Face masks: what the data say
The science supports that face coverings are saving lives during the coronavirus pandemic,
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/cloth-face-cover-guidance.html
Evidence for Effectiveness of Masks
...emerging evidence from clinical and laboratory studies that shows masks reduce the spray of droplets when worn over the nose and mouth.
https://theconversation.com/masks-help-stop-the-spread-of-coronavirus-the-science-is-simple-and-im-one-of-100-experts-urging-governors-to-require-public-mask-wearing-138507
The evidence
...There are numerous studies that suggest if 80% of people wear a mask in public, then COVID-19 transmission could be halted.
...laboratory and epidemiological evidence...
https://www.europeanscientist.com/en/public-health/how-effective-are-face-masks-at-slowing-spread-of-coronavirus/
By far, the strongest evidence for mask-wearing can be found in real-world data or so-called epidemiologic data. Leffler and colleagues analysed data on demographics, testing, lockdowns, and the public wearing of masks from 196 countries and found that countries with cultural norms or government policies supporting public mask-wearing had much lower per-capita mortality rates (1)
...
Another study from Germany reported that face masks reduced the number of newly registered SARS‐CoV‐2 infections by between 15 and 75 per cent over a 20-day period after their mandatory introduction (2). Overall, the authors estimate that face masks reduce the daily growth rate of reported infections by around 47 per cent.
...
The general consensus seems to be that masks – even, simple cloth ones – while clearly not foolproof can significantly slow the spread of the virus and reduce deaths

(1) Leffler, C.T. et al. Association of country-wide coronavirus mortality with demographics, testing, lockdowns, and public wearing of masks. Update August 4, 2020. medRxiv (2020). DOI: 10.1101/2020.05.22.20109231

(2) Mitze, T. et al. Face Masks Considerably Reduce Covid-19 Cases in Germany: A Synthetic Control Method Approach. IZA Discussion Paper No. 13319 (2020). Available at SSRN: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3620634

(3) Fischer, E.P. et al. Low-cost measurement of facemask efficacy for filtering expelled droplets during speech. Science Advancese (2020). DOI: 10.1126/sciadv.abd3083

(4) Simha, P.P. and Rao, P.S.M. Universal trends in human cough airflows at large distances featured. Physics of Fluids (2020). DOI: 10.1063/5.0021666

(5) Sickbert-Bennett, E.E. et al. Filtration Efficiency of Hospital Face Mask Alternatives Available for Use During the COVID-19 Pandemic. JAMA Internal Medicine (2020). DOI:
..."
https://www.wsj.com/articles/face-masks-really-do-matter-the-scientific-evidence-is-growing-11595083298
Face Masks Really Do Matter. The Scientific Evidence Is Growing.
Face masks are emerging as one of the most powerful weapons to fight the new coronavirus, with growing evidence that facial coverings help prevent transmission
The research Dr. Redfield cited included a recently published study suggesting that universal use of surgical masks helped reduce rates of confirmed coronavirus infections among health-care workers at the Mass General Brigham health-care system in Massachusetts.
Researchers from around the world have found many different kinds of masks can significantly reduce the spread of coronavirus,
Their findings largely align with other recently published research.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/facemasks-shown-to-cut-spread-of-covid-19-9r92zfpb8
Facemasks slow spread of coronavirus by 40 per cent, study shows

Before you moronically ask me yet again "What is your source of your information", see above. It is shown in the above links.
There very clearly is evidence wearing face masks is effective. See above. It is explained in the above links.

@humy said
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02801-8
Face masks: what the data say
The science supports that face coverings are saving lives during the coronavirus pandemic,
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/cloth-face-cover-guidance.html
Evidence for Effectiveness of Masks
...emerging evidence from clinical and laboratory studies that shows mask ...[text shortened]... clearly is evidence wearing face masks is effective. See above. It is explained in the above links.

Here is an excerpt from your nature link:

"In hospitals and other health-care facilities, the use of medical-grade masks clearly cuts down transmission of the SARS-CoV-2 virus. But for the variety of masks in use by the public, the data are messy, disparate and often hastily assembled. Add to that a divisive political discourse that included a US president disparaging their use, just days before being diagnosed with COVID-19 himself. “People looking at the evidence are understanding it differently,” says Baruch Fischhoff, a psychologist at Carnegie Mellon University in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, who specializes in public policy. “It’s legitimately confusing.”

So the article is only talking about medical-grade masks, not cloth masks. Medical-grade masks are not even all that effective and it depends if they are being worn properly.

Many people do not wear masks properly at all. I have seen many store employees with their mask on their chin not serving any purpose at all. Some cover their mouth but not their nose.

In order for masks to be effective they have to be worn properly and they have to be medical-grade masks. Cloth masks are useless.

@metal-brain said
What is your source of information?

The Netherlands goverment probbaly, it took me less than a minute to come up with this link:

https://www.government.nl/topics/coronavirus-covid-19/tackling-new-coronavirus-in-the-netherlands/basic-rules-for-everyone

Please consider to learn to use technology and come to the understanding of a junior highschool attendee before trying to discuss science.

@metal-brain said

So the article is only talking about medical-grade masks, not cloth masks.

your false assertion was "there is no evidence wearing face masks is effective." (your EXACT quote). You said nothing there about whether the face masks are medical-grade or just cloth. So I only have to show evidence of either one being effective and that proves your assertion false.
+ some of the other links mention evidence for cloth masks being effective thus showing evidence of BOTH being effective.
Thus your claim there that there is no such evidence has been thoroughly debunked and this is in spite of your failed attempt to move the goal posts yet again.

Many people do not wear masks properly at all.

then the answer is to educate them to wear them properly, not to tell them to stop wearing them. You make no point.

This youtube video mentions some of the huge evidence of the high effectiveness of face masks, including home made ones about 17.25 into the video;

YouTube

The link first explained why the masks, unlike the ones used today even the home-made cloth ones used today, used during the great Spanish flu epidemic had little effect; it was because they used a fabric that had huge hole sizes that thus failed to block even the larger droplets. Most modern fabrics like the most common cotten cloths don't have that problem and are far more effective.

There is also the question of if the science says face masks are ineffective then why do hospital staff throughout the world routinely keep wearing them in hospitals? I mean, are the hospital staff and those that run all the hospitals throughout the world ALL just completely stupid by, like Trump, ignoring/denying what the science says? Or is there a mass world-wide conspiracy in all hospitals to fool staff to wear masks when the people running the hospitals know the masks don't help and, if to, why? I mean, for what motive? -It actually COSTS the hospital something to provide masks so providing masks wouldn't make sense even as a cost-cutting exercise. The simplest answer of course is that the science does NOT say face masks are ineffective. The science says they aren't fool-proof but are still effective at reducing the incidence of spread.