No asymptomatic spread

@humy said
Obviously nobody here would deny lockdowns can hurt the economy but, unless the face masks are loaded with masses of stupid frilly gold lace or unless it is for a third-world economy so poor it cannot even afford the cheapest masks, how on earth do (or has) mandatory face masks "ruin the economy"?
There is no evidence that mandatory face masks have ruined the US or UK economy. ...[text shortened]... the economy and, while a damaged economic can usually eventually be repaired, dead people cannot be.

I never said face masks ruined the economy.
Learn to read.

"I should also point out that human life is more important than the economy"

That is not the policy of any country. All countries sacrifice human life for economic benefit as common practice. Pull your head out of your butt and look around you. All you have to do is look for it.

@deepthought said
How do you intend to construct a Randomized Controlled Trial to measure asymptomatic spread? RCTs are not the only method of finding evidence of the effectiveness of treatments, however they are the gold standard. For the transmissibility of a disease population data is sufficient as the NHS registers new cases.

Correlation may not prove causation, but it might be considered evidence for it.

I can show a correlation between wearing face masks and a higher rate of SARS2 infections indicating that face masks do more harm than good. Do you considered that evidence for it?

@metal-brain said
I never said face masks ruined the economy.

But you implied it.

" ...human life is more important than the economy"

That is not the policy of any country.

That assertion of mine implies and was obviously meant to imply nothing about which POLICY of any country was/is implemented but rather implies a MORAL JUDGEMENT, something I get the impression you apparently cannot ever understand.
Regardless of which policies are actually implemented, which I claimed/implied nothing about because I clearly wasn't talking about which POLICY is actually implemented, I say and most normal non-psychopathic people with morality that think human lives are actually worth something would agree with my implied moral judgment implied from;

"...human life is more important than the economy"

Most normal non-psychopathic people with morality that think human lives are actually worth something would agree that if either killing or letting die via neglect, say, 2% of all people would benefit the economy, that doesn't morally justify killing or letting die via neglect 2% of all people. This is at least partly because most normal people have something called 'compassion'.-look that up and find out what that is.

@humy said
But you implied it.

" ...human life is more important than the economy"

That is not the policy of any country.

That assertion of mine implies and was obviously meant to imply nothing about which POLICY of any country was/is implemented but rather implies a MORAL JUDGEMENT, something I get the impression you apparently cannot ever understand.
Regardless of w ...[text shortened]... cause most normal people have something called 'compassion'.-look that up and find out what that is.

Lowering the speed limit would save lives.

Nobody puts a priority on saving lives there. Human lives are sacrificed so you can get things fast and keep the economy efficient. That is just one example.

@metal-brain said
If asymptomatic spread is almost nothing why would wearing masks be necessary? The article didn't have to mention the obvious. Are you having problems seeing the obvious?

There are dozens of epidemiological studies showing that masks are effective at slowing the spread.

There are dozens of epidemiological studies showing that masks are effective at slowing the spread.

There are dozens of epidemiological studies showing that masks are effective at slowing the spread.

There are dozens of epidemiological studies showing that masks are effective at slowing the spread.

LINK: https://examine.com/topics/coronavirus-masks/research/

(also note, for all infectious diseases there is a lag between infection and development of symptoms. The symptoms are your immune system neutralizing the infection, making you less infectious. https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200428/how-contagious-likely-before-you-know-youre-sick)

@wildgrass said
There are dozens of epidemiological studies showing that masks are effective at slowing the spread.

There are dozens of epidemiological studies showing that masks are effective at slowing the spread.

There are dozens of epidemiological studies showing that masks are effective at slowing the spread.

There are dozens of epidemiological studies showing that masks are ...[text shortened]... fectious. https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200428/how-contagious-likely-before-you-know-youre-sick)

The only scientific studies that matter are Randomized Controlled Trials

The only scientific studies that matter are Randomized Controlled Trials

The only scientific studies that matter are Randomized Controlled Trials

The only scientific studies that matter are Randomized Controlled Trials

The only scientific studies that matter are Randomized Controlled Trials (RCTs) with verified outcomes because they test the masks directly with control groups to see if they actually prevent viral diseases. In contrast, observational studies, such as statistical correlations (epidemiological) and computer modeling are based on speculation that can be tainted by bias. They are highly inaccurate and as explained in the July 31 issue of JAMA (Journal of The American Medical Association) can get in the way of doing legitimate research.

https://www.rcreader.com/sites/default/files/Denis-Rancourt-Face-masks-lies-damn-lies-and-public-health=officials-a-growing-body-of-evidence-August-03-2020.pdf

@metal-brain said
The only scientific studies that matter are Randomized Controlled Trials

The only scientific studies that matter are Randomized Controlled Trials

The only scientific studies that matter are Randomized Controlled Trials

The only scientific studies that matter are Randomized Controlled Trials

The only scientific studies that matter are Randomized Controlled ...[text shortened]... -Face-masks-lies-damn-lies-and-public-health=officials-a-growing-body-of-evidence-August-03-2020.pdf

You have stated an opinion without basis in reality. But it's a fact that there are dozens of epidemiological studies showing mask are effective

I think you need to read more? It seems you're out of your depth here.

@metal-brain said
The only scientific studies that matter are Randomized Controlled Trials

This is false and shows you don't understand scientific method and you are so ignorant of it that you apparently never heard of 'observational science' or 'observational study', a perfectly valid form of science and study.

https://www.yourdictionary.com/observational-science
"....observational science is a field of science where controlled observations cannot be done in order to study causes and effects. Scientific studies are simply done through the observation of nature taking its course and recording the findings over time...."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Observational_study
"In fields such as epidemiology, social sciences, psychology and statistics, an observational study draws inferences from a sample to a population where the independent variable is not under the control of the researcher because of ethical concerns or logistical constraints. One common observational study is about the possible effect of a treatment on subjects, where the assignment of subjects into a treated group versus a control group is outside the control of the investigator.[1][2] This is in contrast with experiments, such as randomized controlled trials, where each subject is randomly assigned to a treated group or a control group. ..."

I also should point out that many scientific studies and theories that have since been proven valid or correct were not done via Randomized Controlled Trials including relativity and atomic theory etc. Not to mention the discovery of penicillin.

@wildgrass said
You have stated an opinion without basis in reality. But it's a fact that there are dozens of epidemiological studies showing mask are effective

I think you need to read more? It seems you're out of your depth here.

Nope. Not an opinion.

The Netherlands did not make mask wearing mandatory until recently and their C19 death rate is 15th in Europe.

There is your epidemiological study without bias. Apparently wearing masks does more harm than good. Belgium has the most deaths per capita and it borders the Netherlands. Wearing masks made Belgium and the UK a wreck.

It is obvious to anyone unbiased that masks are not effective.

@metal-brain said
Nope. Not an opinion.

The Netherlands did not make mask wearing mandatory until recently and their C19 death rate is 15th in Europe.

There is your epidemiological study without bias. Apparently wearing masks does more harm than good. Belgium has the most deaths per capita and it borders the Netherlands. Wearing masks made Belgium and the UK a wreck.

It is obvious to anyone unbiased that masks are not effective.

There are dozens of epidemiological studies showing that masks are effective at slowing the spread.

Slowing the spread, extending the virus.

@eladar said
Slowing the spread, extending the virus.

Slowing the spread, extending lives and saving lives.

@humy said
Slowing the spread, saving lives.

If that is what you want to believe.

@eladar said
If that is what you want to believe.

if less people catch it before they are vaccinated, how would that not save lives? Explain...

@humy said
if less people catch it before they are vaccinated, how would that not save lives? Explain...

You certainly have faith.