There is a chapel in Sante Fe, New Mexico called Loretto Chapel, which was built in the late 1800's. The builders of the chapel neglected to include a staircase leading from ground floor to the choir section above. Apparently, after construction, all carpenters said a staircase could not be built.
A staircase was finally built by an unknown carpenter that, to this day, seems to be unexplainable to modern architects and engineers.
The staircase has two 360° turns, with NO support system of any kind.
There are obviously many people who feel this is a miracle of sorts, and there are other details such as the number of steps, 33, and that the wood used has no obvious origin, after testing, but I'm curious about why exactly, from an engineering perspective, is this staircase such a huge deal to many people.
If any on this forum wish to investigate a little and offer some insight, I'd appreciate it.
@chaney3said There is a chapel in Sante Fe, New Mexico called Loretto Chapel, which was built in the late 1800's. The builders of the chapel neglected to include a staircase leading from ground floor to the choir section above. Apparently, after construction, all carpenters said a staircase could not be built.
A staircase was finally built by an unknown carpenter that, to this day, se ...[text shortened]... ple.
If any on this forum wish to investigate a little and offer some insight, I'd appreciate it.
I don't have any insight, but I saw this fascinating story on Unsolved Mysteries.
Simply beautiful - and amazing! Apparently, the carpenter insisted that the Chapel be cleared as he worked, and, when the work was completed, he vanished without a trace.
@johnsim03said I don't have any insight, but I saw this fascinating story on Unsolved Mysteries.
Simply beautiful - and amazing! Apparently, the carpenter insisted that the Chapel be cleared as he worked, and, when the work was completed, he vanished without a trace.
Well, the nuns at the time believed the carpenter to be none other than St. Joseph, father of Jesus, who 'provided' the wood, which as I stated, seems to be part of this mystery.
But....this is the science forum, and I will do my best to keep the discussion focused on architecture and engineering, which still cannot explain to this day why the staircase didn't collapse at once, with no support system.
@chaney3said Well, the nuns at the time believed the carpenter to be none other than St. Joseph, father of Jesus, who 'provided' the wood, which as I stated, seems to be part of this mystery.
But....this is the science forum, and I will do my best to keep the discussion focused on architecture and engineering, which still cannot explain to this day why the staircase didn't collapse at once, with no support system.
I did some digging and found this:
Master carpenter Christopher Francis Ocean explained the mystery behind the support of the staircase and the lack of a central column:
“a simple staircase has two beams, called stringers, and the treads of the staircase rest on these beams or are connected to them…the weight of the staircase [is] transferred to where the two stringers touch the floor. The only difference with the staircase at the Loretto Chapel is these beams or stringers have been twisted into a helix.”
@chaney3said A staircase was finally built by an unknown carpenter that, to this day, seems to be unexplainable to modern architects and engineers.
Can you cite a modern architect or engineer, who, after careful inspection of said staircase, concluded its methods of construction are "unexplainable"?
@kazetnagorrasaid Can you cite a modern architect or engineer, who, after careful inspection of said staircase, concluded its methods of construction are "unexplainable"?
Engineers have been reported saying that it would be extremely challenging to build such a staircase in our modern time, and are perplexed how it was done well over 100 years ago. They call it a mystery.
@chaney3said Engineers have been reported saying that it would be extremely challenging to build such a staircase in our modern time, and are perplexed how it was done well over 100 years ago. They call it a mystery.
@chaney3said In my OP, I said if any were "interested" in investigating the matter. You have seemingly not investigated anything, but are merely trolling.
You need not post again here.
One of the supposedly miraculous aspects of the staircase is that it lacks the newel or central pole usually used to support and stabilize a spiral staircase, and therefore the means of supporting the weight is not obvious. In reality, the staircase is supported by its stringers just like a conventional (straight) staircase, although in this case each stringer is twisted into a helix.[10] Observers have also noted that the inside stringer has such a tight radius that it is able to function similarly to a straight center support.[8] According to an analysis by a professional carpenter in Mysterious New Mexico, the assembly of the stringers from overlapping segments joined by wood glue creates a laminate that is actually stronger than the wood alone. Additionally, the use of wooden pegs rather than nails prevents degradation of the joints due to compression set as the wood swells against the nails due to changes in humidity or temperature.[7]
Although the staircase as built lacked any external bracing, an iron support bracket was added in 1887 at the same time as the railings. This may have been intended to limit the degree of vertical travel arising from the helical shape, which effectively makes the staircase behave as a giant coil spring and is part of the reason spiral staircases usually have a central support. Even after this modification, users of the staircase reported "a certain amount of springiness".[8] Nevertheless, it was able to hold a significant amount of weight, as attested by a photo taken around 1959 of at least twelve choir members posing on the steps.[7]
There are some examples of similar staircases in the full article and in fact, engineers can explain its construction perfectly, which is probably why you aren't able to name any who think otherwise.
Glad to have been able of help to dispel your misconceptions about this matter.
@kazetnagorrasaid [quote]One of the supposedly miraculous aspects of the staircase is that it lacks the newel or central pole usually used to support and stabilize a spiral staircase, and therefore the means of supporting the weight is not obvious. In reality, the staircase is supported by its stringers just like a conventional (straight) staircase, although in this case each stringer is ...[text shortened]... think otherwise.
Glad to have been able of help to dispel your misconceptions about this matter.
You are mistaken.
This staircase was built in the 1800's, and they don't really understand how.
Unless you can cite some of these alleged engineers the case is closed. There's a perfectly simple explanation that you are willfully ignoring. The only "mystery" here is the identity of the carpenter.
Edit:
Well how about that. There isn't a mystery at all.
In the early 2000s, research by amateur historian Mary Jean Cook identified the probable builder of the staircase as François-Jean "Frank" or "Frenchy" Rochas (1843–1894), a reclusive rancher and occasional carpenter who came to New Mexico from France around the 1870s. A key piece of evidence was a short article in the Santa Fe New Mexican describing his death by murder in 1894, which noted "He was a Frenchman, and was favorably known in Santa Fe as an expert worker in wood. He build [sic] the handsome stair-case in the Loretto chapel and at St. Vincent sanitarium."[13] Cook also found an entry in the Sisters' logbook stating that Rochas had been paid $150 for "wood" in 1881, confirming that he had done some type of carpentry work for them. At the time of his death, Rochas was reported to own an extensive set of carpentry tools including "five saws, a saw clamp and set, nine planes, nineteen moulding planes, two squares, five gauges, six chisels, two gouges, a draw knife, a brace, three augers, ten auger bits, a reamer, two clamps, and a pair of trammel points (for drawing large circles)".
The staircase is said to be a marvel and that it is miraculous that a carpenter at the time could have built it using techniques known at the time, but that is the extent of the miracle - not this credulous stuff you seem to insist on wanting us to believe.
@chaney3 I play guitar and see some of the luthiers making them and they can bend wood around a heated frame and I bet there was something like that used to bend the wood into a spiral, its not THAT big a deal. They could do that FIVE hundred years ago. How do you think they made ship's keels?
The people who say 'unexplainable' just haven't seen construction tricks of the trade.
Here is the deal: It was done, it was done in the 19th century and is still there today.
Would someone then suggest, IMFRIGGINGPOSSIBLE, THEREFORE ALIENS EXIST and help that carpenter bend that wood......
Loretto Chapel staircase
30 Aug '19 08:131 edit
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