1. Joined
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    28 Oct '19 18:581 edit
    Anatomically modern humans originated in Africa around 200 thousand years ago (ka). Although some of the oldest skeletal remains suggest an eastern African origin, southern Africa is home to contemporary populations that represent the earliest branch of human genetic phylogeny. Here we generate, to our knowledge, the largest resource for the poorly represented and deepest-rooting maternal L0 mitochondrial DNA branch (198 new mitogenomes for a total of 1,217 mitogenomes) from contemporary southern Africans and show the geographical isolation of L0d1’2, L0k and L0g KhoeSan descendants south of the Zambezi river in Africa. By establishing mitogenomic timelines, frequencies and dispersals, we show that the L0 lineage emerged within the residual Makgadikgadi–Okavango palaeo-wetland of southern Africa, approximately 200 ka (95% confidence interval, 240–165 ka). Genetic divergence points to a sustained 70,000-year-long existence of the L0 lineage before an out-of-homeland northeast–southwest dispersal between 130 and 110 ka. Palaeo-climate proxy and model data suggest that increased humidity opened green corridors, first to the northeast then to the southwest. Subsequent drying of the homeland corresponds to a sustained effective population size (L0k), whereas wet–dry cycles and probable adaptation to marine foraging allowed the southwestern migrants to achieve population growth (L0d1’2), as supported by extensive south-coastal archaeological evidence. Taken together, we propose a southern African origin of anatomically modern humans with sustained homeland occupation before the first migrations of people that appear to have been driven by regional climate changes.

    Very controversial stuff in here, since our fossil record suggests a much earlier origin (at least 315k years) and an earlier migration out of Africa. Perhaps those other fossils/tools are not our ancestors? Orthe exclusive use of mitochondrial DNA is leading to premature conclusions?

    Also climate change? 150k years ago. A 15,000 year mega-drought? Millennials would be so mad if that happened now.

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-019-1714-1.pdf
  2. Standard memberAThousandYoung
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    29 Oct '19 06:15
    All that sounds reasonable, but Eden happened much later in the Persian Gulf region:

    http://ldolphin.org/eden/

    Eden wasn't the beginning of humanity but the beginning of Western civilization.
  3. Standard membermobster kitty
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    29 Oct '19 22:05
    the garden of eden is in northeast iran ( a land in that area which is pre-persian ).
    it is a valley known in that old language as "idin". it has four rivers around it and a river running thru it. the climate is mediterrean. to the east, beyond the eastern
    mountain gorge ( in that old language ) was known by something ( remembering as best i can ) by a name with six letters with three of the letters being ( in english )
    "n", "o" and "d". ( the land of nod ) where cain was banished out of "idin". i could write more but there is a bill collector at the front door.
  4. Standard membermobster kitty
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    29 Oct '19 22:17
    @AThousandYoung

    eden is not the birthplace of western civilization. it is the narrative birthplace of the abrahamic religions.

    500 bc greece is the birthplace of western civilization. the birth of reason.
  5. Standard memberDeepThought
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    30 Oct '19 07:14
    @wildgrass said
    [quote]Anatomically modern humans originated in Africa around 200 thousand years ago (ka). Although some of the oldest skeletal remains suggest an eastern African origin, southern Africa is home to contemporary populations that represent the earliest branch of human genetic phylogeny. Here we generate, to our knowledge, the largest resource for the poorly represented and de ...[text shortened]... nials would be so mad if that happened now.

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-019-1714-1.pdf
    I tend to agree:
    Genetic divergence points to a sustained 70,000-year-long existence of the L0 lineage before an out-of-homeland northeast–southwest dispersal between 130 and 110 ka.
    That's a fair bit of time, but they have to get to Europe and Asia before the Neanderthals and Denisovians die out and there's enough of them left to explain the presence of their DNA in European and Asian populations.
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    30 Oct '19 15:29
    @deepthought said
    I tend to agree:
    Genetic divergence points to a sustained 70,000-year-long existence of the L0 lineage before an out-of-homeland northeast–southwest dispersal between 130 and 110 ka.
    That's a fair bit of time, but they have to get to Europe and Asia before the Neanderthals and Denisovians die out and there's enough of them left to explain the presence of their DNA in European and Asian populations.
    A lot could have happened in that time frame. Maybe a wandering hoard of Neandertals moved south for a few hundred generations?

    And yes, the study seems very solid. It has been criticized for it's exclusive reliance on mtDNA. Certainly (hopefully) follow up studies will evaluate whole exomes/genomes. mtDNA analysis does leave out a lot of possibly-useful information. Also, there's some evidence that it does not segregate as cleanly as has been assumed.
  7. Standard memberAThousandYoung
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    30 Oct '19 19:01
    @mister-moggy said
    the garden of eden is in northeast iran ( a land in that area which is pre-persian ).
    it is a valley known in that old language as "idin". it has four rivers around it and a river running thru it. the climate is mediterrean. to the east, beyond the eastern
    mountain gorge ( in that old language ) was known by something ( remembering as best i can ) by a name with six ...[text shortened]... ain was banished out of "idin". i could write more but there is a bill collector at the front door.
    The Tigris and Euphrates are well known to flow into Eden which is not consistent with a location in northeast Iran.
  8. Standard memberAThousandYoung
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    30 Oct '19 19:02
    @mister-moggy said
    @AThousandYoung

    eden is not the birthplace of western civilization. it is the narrative birthplace of the abrahamic religions.

    500 bc greece is the birthplace of western civilization. the birth of reason.
    Then how did Egypt manage civilization for thousands of years before 500 BCE?
  9. Standard memberAThousandYoung
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    30 Oct '19 19:09
    https://www.timemaps.com/encyclopedia/origins-of-civilization/

    A small number of major river valleys in different parts of the Eastern Hemipshere played a critical role as cradles of civilization: it was here that all the “original” or “foundational” civilizations – those which did not owe their development to other, older civilizations – emerged. The great civilizations of Mesopotamia, Egypt, the Indus Valley and China all belonged to this category (whilst those of Greece, Rome, Japan and Korea are examples of secondary civilizations, as they owed their existence to earlier ones).
  10. Standard membermobster kitty
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    30 Oct '19 20:07
    @AThousandYoung

    kemet ( known to you modern folk as eygpt ) was not a place of reason.

    hippos as gods ? the ka and the ba as souls moving toward the western horizon ?
  11. Standard membermobster kitty
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    30 Oct '19 20:08
    @AThousandYoung

    the four rivers around "idin" are not the mesotapemian rivers.
  12. Standard memberAThousandYoung
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    30 Oct '19 21:03
    @mister-moggy said
    @AThousandYoung

    the four rivers around "idin" are not the mesotapemian rivers.
    Yes they are.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden_of_Eden#Genesis

    Genesis 2:10–14 lists four rivers in association with the garden of Eden: Pishon, Gihon, Chidekel (the Tigris), and Phirat (the Euphrates).
  13. Standard memberAThousandYoung
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    30 Oct '19 21:04
    @mister-moggy said
    @AThousandYoung

    kemet ( known to you modern folk as eygpt ) was not a place of reason.

    hippos as gods ? the ka and the ba as souls moving toward the western horizon ?
    Civilization isn't based on "reason" its based on settlements and agriculture.
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    25 Nov '19 19:40
    @athousandyoung said
    Civilization isn't based on "reason" its based on settlements and agriculture.
    CIVILization is based on transferring the remediation of injustice from blood feuding clans to a CIVIC authority.
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    26 Nov '19 01:48
    @moonbus said
    CIVILization is based on transferring the remediation of injustice from blood feuding clans to a CIVIC authority.
    And CIVIC is defined as relating to settlements.
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