Science Forum

Science Forum

  1. Joined
    07 Dec '05
    Moves
    14798
    12 Jun '19 01:391 edit
    @sonhouse said
    Fully ensconced in the lunatic fringe now. So now you add the time dilation conspiracy to the anti- climate change alarmist conspiracy.
    Let's see you prove time dilation causes gravity and BTW, explain why going fast also causes time dilation.
    Also BTW, that video says Earth is not moving through space when we know it is part of the Milky way and conjoined in the general ...[text shortened]... alaxy along with the spiraling around the sun once a year.
    Right there they go off the reservation.
    No conspiracy. Einstein established that 100 years ago. Greene is not claiming anything new, just arcane because a false causality was taught that mislead people into believing the bending of space/time is different than time dilation.

    You are unwittingly calling Brian Greene a lunatic. Before you claimed he was wrong. Greene is the expert and you refuse to believe the expert. That makes you on the lunatic fringe.

    I asked deepthought what other time warp is there and he cannot give an answer that makes sense. There is no other tiny time warp that causes things to fall. Futhermore, Greene said "the math shows things are attracted to places where time elapses more slowly". That is time dilation. It is obvious to anyone not in deep denial.

    You are in deep denial. The math shows things are attracted to places where time elapses more slowly. That is time dilation and he is referring to the math of Einstein's field equations. You are unwittingly calling Einstein a fringe lunatic. Greene got it from Einstein's GR.

    By insulting Greene and Einstein both you have shown yourself to be the fringe lunatic. You reject GR solely because of a personal disliking of me and for reasons of cognitive dissonance. If you accept I am right about this you must consider the possibility I am right about global warming being mostly natural. That cognitive dissonance is preventing you from accepting the assertions of the experts because if you did accept Greene is right you would have to accept I am right.

    If I had never made the assertion time dilation causes gravity you would accept Greene's assertion of the same thing without question and you know it. Deepthought took a different position, he is denying Greene was talking about time dilation at all. His cognitive dissonance is preventing him from accepting reality in a different way which contradicts yours. You said Greene is wrong and Deepthought does not.

    Both of you are in denial about things that are not compatible with each other. Greene cannot be wrong and right at the same time. One of you two is wrong even if I am wrong and I am not anymore wrong than Greene.

    I don't think any unbiased person would bet against Greene when you and deepthought cannot even agree whether Greene is right or wrong. Sensible people will conclude Greene is right and both of you are wrong. Denial will not change that.
  2. Standard memberDeepThought
    Losing the Thread
    Cosmopolis
    Joined
    27 Oct '04
    Moves
    81203
    12 Jun '19 15:54
    @metal-brain said
    Confused unintelligible language. What other time warp is there?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcvq1DAM-DE
    That is not the dictionary definition of jargon. I suggest you look it up.
  3. Joined
    07 Dec '05
    Moves
    14798
    12 Jun '19 23:20
    @deepthought said
    That is not the dictionary definition of jargon. I suggest you look it up.
    LOL! I got it from a dictionary.

    What other time warp is there? You are attempting to deny the obvious. Now you must explain what other time warp he could possibly be referring to and you cannot do it.
  4. Standard memberDeepThought
    Losing the Thread
    Cosmopolis
    Joined
    27 Oct '04
    Moves
    81203
    13 Jun '19 10:17
    @metal-brain said
    LOL! I got it from a dictionary.

    What other time warp is there? You are attempting to deny the obvious. Now you must explain what other time warp he could possibly be referring to and you cannot do it.
    Then use a better dictionary. This is the definition from the Oxford dictionary:
    jargon 1
    noun
    mass noun

    1. Special words or expressions used by a profession or group that are difficult for others to understand.
    ‘legal jargon’

    1.1 (archaic) A form of language regarded as barbarous, debased, or hybrid.

    Origin

    Late Middle English (originally in the sense ‘twittering, chattering’, later ‘gibberish’.): from Old French jargoun, of unknown origin. The main sense dates from the mid 17th century.
    Pronunciation
    jargon/ˈdʒɑːɡ(ə)n/

    jargon 2
    (also jargoon)
    noun
    mass noun

    A translucent, colourless, or smoky gem variety of zircon.

    Origin

    Mid 18th century from French, from Italian giargone; probably ultimately related to zircon.
    Pronunciation
    jargon/ˈdʒɑːɡ(ə)n/
    Definition 2 is clearly irrelevant. Definition 1.1 is archaic, the one you seem to insist on. The basic definition, relevant to this discussion is the main one presented: jargon is simply technical language. Do you accept now that the words "time dilation" are a piece of jargon, as per the main definition above?
  5. Joined
    06 Mar '12
    Moves
    625
    13 Jun '19 10:502 edits
    @deepthought said
    Then use a better dictionary. This is the definition from the Oxford dictionary:
    [quote]jargon 1
    noun
    mass noun

    1. Special words or expressions used by a profession or group that are difficult for others to understand.
    ‘legal jargon’

    1.1 (archaic) A form of language regarded as barbarous, debased, or hybrid.

    Origin

    Late Middle English (origina ...[text shortened]... u accept now that the words "time dilation" are a piece of jargon, as per the main definition above?
    If what he means by "time dilation" being "jargon" is definition 1.1 above then he is being hypocritical with all his assertions that contain the term "time dilation" such as "time dilation is gravity" etc because according to his OWN rhetoric he HIMSELF is speaking in such "jargon" by using the words "time dilation" so HE cannot complain, like he did, when WE use the words "time dilation"!
    I don't think he even knows what "time dilation" means.
  6. Joined
    07 Dec '05
    Moves
    14798
    13 Jun '19 14:261 edit
    @deepthought said
    Then use a better dictionary. This is the definition from the Oxford dictionary:
    [quote]jargon 1
    noun
    mass noun

    1. Special words or expressions used by a profession or group that are difficult for others to understand.
    ‘legal jargon’

    1.1 (archaic) A form of language regarded as barbarous, debased, or hybrid.

    Origin

    Late Middle English (origina ...[text shortened]... u accept now that the words "time dilation" are a piece of jargon, as per the main definition above?
    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/jargon

    : obscure and often pretentious language marked by circumlocutions and long words


    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pretentious

    Time dilation is a widely accepted term in science. Jargon is language and has little to do with widely accepted terms. You are digressing into nonsense again.

    Time dilation causes gravity. Your denial of it is in the form of jargon so you are trying to revise the definition of jargon. Your cheerleader is a moron for defending your baseless assertion, but throw him a scooby snack for loyalty.
  7. Joined
    06 Mar '12
    Moves
    625
    13 Jun '19 14:31
    @metal-brain said
    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/jargon

    : obscure and often pretentious language marked by circumlocutions and long words
    So you think "time dilation" is just that?
  8. Joined
    07 Dec '05
    Moves
    14798
    13 Jun '19 14:36
    Time dilation is a term, not language.
    It is quite pathetic that people have to resort to jargon in a feeble attempt to revise the definition of the word jargon. Next they will be claiming words are jargon, perhaps jargon itself.

    A truly pathetic display of desperation.
  9. Joined
    06 Mar '12
    Moves
    625
    13 Jun '19 14:411 edit
    @metal-brain said
    Time dilation is a term, not language.
    Terms are part of language. Language is made of words and terms. Do you claim the term "time dilation" is "jargon"?
    a feeble attempt to revise the definition of the word jargon
    Nope. We know exactly what it means. Its only you that apparently don't.
  10. Standard memberDeepThought
    Losing the Thread
    Cosmopolis
    Joined
    27 Oct '04
    Moves
    81203
    13 Jun '19 15:09
    @metal-brain said
    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/jargon

    : obscure and often pretentious language marked by circumlocutions and long words


    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pretentious

    Time dilation is a widely accepted term in science. Jargon is language and has little to do with widely accepted terms. You are digressing into nonsense again.

    Time dilatio ...[text shortened]... erleader is a moron for defending your baseless assertion, but throw him a scooby snack for loyalty.
    Here is the full definition from Merriam Webster:
    jargon noun
    jar·​gon | \ ˈjär-gən
    , -ˌgän\
    Definition of jargon

    (Entry 1 of 2)
    1 : the technical terminology or characteristic idiom of a special activity or group sports jargon
    2 : obscure and often pretentious language marked by circumlocutions and long words an academic essay filled with jargon
    3a : confused unintelligible language
    b : a strange, outlandish, or barbarous language or dialect
    c : a hybrid language or dialect simplified in vocabulary and grammar and used for communication between peoples of different speech
    Entry 2 was a verbal form (jargonize). Your own source's first definition, that is definition 1 above agrees with me. Definition 2 is a separate definition, and not present in the Oxford dictionary. You cherry picked there. You throw the word "liar" around quite loosely, but I've just caught you in one.
  11. Subscribersonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    slatington, pa, usa
    Joined
    28 Dec '04
    Moves
    52874
    13 Jun '19 22:37
    @metal-brain said
    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/jargon

    : obscure and often pretentious language marked by circumlocutions and long words


    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pretentious

    Time dilation is a widely accepted term in science. Jargon is language and has little to do with widely accepted terms. You are digressing into nonsense again.

    Time dilatio ...[text shortened]... erleader is a moron for defending your baseless assertion, but throw him a scooby snack for loyalty.
    So time dilation also causes a spacecraft to go fast?
  12. Joined
    07 Dec '05
    Moves
    14798
    14 Jun '19 04:01
    @deepthought said
    Here is the full definition from Merriam Webster:[quote]jargon noun
    jar·​gon | \ ˈjär-gən
    , -ˌgän\
    Definition of jargon

    (Entry 1 of 2)
    1 : the technical terminology or characteristic idiom of a special activity or group sports jargon
    2 : obscure and often pretentious language marked by circumlocutions and long words an academic essay filled with jargon
    3a : conf ...[text shortened]... erry picked there. You throw the word "liar" around quite loosely, but I've just caught you in one.
    Time dilation is an accepted term in science. It is not jargon. You can call it that all you want, but it isn't going to make it so. What you need to do is stop confusing velocity time dilation with that from matter, then it will not be jargon. You are perfectly capable of doing that, but you do not want to be clear about it. You would rather obfuscate.

    This is the wrong thread for time dilation and dictionary misreading. Does a wavelength longer than the Faraday cage's wire spacing go through it? You seemed to think ELF waves might be an exception. Are they?

    I bring this up because the double slit experiment has to be free of any exceptions to be truly valid. I could assume all of that was taken into account, but assuming is a poor way of doing physics. Kind of like assuming the bending of space/time is different than time dilation.
  13. Joined
    07 Dec '05
    Moves
    14798
    14 Jun '19 04:041 edit
    @sonhouse said
    So time dilation also causes a spacecraft to go fast?
    NO. You have it backwards.

    Theoretically if you could artificially create time dilation that might work, but that is science fiction. It is fun to think about an anti-gravity device, but it does not exist.

    I suggest finding out why matter causes time dilation first. Is it the electrons? Neutrons? Is a neutron star really made up of neutrons without electrons? It is not like a sample has been taken.
  14. Standard memberDeepThought
    Losing the Thread
    Cosmopolis
    Joined
    27 Oct '04
    Moves
    81203
    14 Jun '19 05:26
    @metal-brain said
    Time dilation is an accepted term in science. It is not jargon. You can call it that all you want, but it isn't going to make it so. What you need to do is stop confusing velocity time dilation with that from matter, then it will not be jargon. You are perfectly capable of doing that, but you do not want to be clear about it. You would rather obfuscate.

    This is the wr ...[text shortened]... y of doing physics. Kind of like assuming the bending of space/time is different than time dilation.
    Technical language is jargon. This is the principal meaning. You failed to read a dictionary properly. Technical language is difficult for lay-persons to understand, you don't understand what "time dilation" means.
  15. Standard memberDeepThought
    Losing the Thread
    Cosmopolis
    Joined
    27 Oct '04
    Moves
    81203
    14 Jun '19 05:26
    @metal-brain said
    Time dilation is an accepted term in science. It is not jargon. You can call it that all you want, but it isn't going to make it so. What you need to do is stop confusing velocity time dilation with that from matter, then it will not be jargon. You are perfectly capable of doing that, but you do not want to be clear about it. You would rather obfuscate.

    This is the wr ...[text shortened]... y of doing physics. Kind of like assuming the bending of space/time is different than time dilation.
    You brought up ELF waves, not I. The point is that in a real Faraday cage the wires have resistance so I'm not sure, I left that practical point to sonhouse. If the wires are perfect conductors then nothing with a wavelength that long will get through. Since real wires do have a resistance I'm not sure and would have to do some reading, which I'm not prepared to do.
Back to Top