black hole

Subscribermlb62
Science 02 Sep '20 19:36
  1. Subscribermlb62
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    02 Sep '20 19:361 edit
    that shouldn't exist .....

    https://guardian.ng/features/scientists-detect-mysterious-intermediate-mass-black-hole/
  2. Subscribersonhouse
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    03 Sep '20 18:02
    @ogb
    They are now thinking it might be something even more exotic than a black hole, not sure what that would be.
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    23 Sep '20 14:42
    @ogb said
    that shouldn't exist .....

    https://guardian.ng/features/scientists-detect-mysterious-intermediate-mass-black-hole/
    One word, "spin".

    Some neutron stars seem too massive to not collapse into a black hole. The reason is the rate of spin. Remember, if neutron stars did not spin at an extremely fast rate there would not be enough centrifugal force for heavy rare metals to escape. That is the theory as to why gold and other rare metals are on our planet. If that theory is wrong those rare heavy metals do not come from neutron stars as has been claimed.
  4. SubscriberSuzianne
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    29 Sep '20 06:25
    @metal-brain said
    One word, "spin".

    Some neutron stars seem too massive to not collapse into a black hole. The reason is the rate of spin. Remember, if neutron stars did not spin at an extremely fast rate there would not be enough centrifugal force for heavy rare metals to escape. That is the theory as to why gold and other rare metals are on our planet. If that theory is wrong those rare heavy metals do not come from neutron stars as has been claimed.
    Those heavy elements are actually thrown out of supernova explosions.
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    29 Sep '20 08:13
    @suzianne said
    Those heavy elements are actually thrown out of supernova explosions.
    What is your source of information?
  6. SubscriberPonderable
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    29 Sep '20 10:54
    @metal-brain said
    What is your source of information?
    That is todays Standard model. You could read Greenwood/Earneshaw The chemistry of The Elements (chemistry undergraduate textbook) chapter one. They do give Sources for further reading.
    I assume that any other textbook on inorganic chemistry would be a good start here.
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    29 Sep '20 13:51
    @ponderable said
    That is todays Standard model. You could read Greenwood/Earneshaw The chemistry of The Elements (chemistry undergraduate textbook) chapter one. They do give Sources for further reading.
    I assume that any other textbook on inorganic chemistry would be a good start here.
    Supernovas do not produce elements heavier than Iron according to what I have read.

    https://info.umkc.edu/news/colliding-neutron-stars-produce-gold-silver-and-platinum/
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    @ponderable said
    That is todays Standard model. You could read Greenwood/Earneshaw The chemistry of The Elements (chemistry undergraduate textbook) chapter one. They do give Sources for further reading.
    I assume that any other textbook on inorganic chemistry would be a good start here.
    He wouldn't be the slightest bit interested. He is never interested in learning something new. He just says "What is your source of information?" thousands of times like a stuck record player purely to bully and troll.
    On many previous occasions, before we got wise to his tactics, I and others here gave very good sources of information about many different things only for him to totally trash it all every time. Don't be surprised if he totally trashes yours; REGARDLESS of how good it may be!
    If you think about it, if someone honestly really wanted to know or learn (something), he wouldn't keep saying "What is your source of information?" thousands of times like a stuck record player but quit asking and just look it up for themselves; With the internet it really isn't hard to do that these days; Quite easy in fact. I have learned about half of what I have learned about science from university and, amazingly I think given the huge volume involved, roughly about half from the internet.
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    @metal-brain said
    Supernovas do not produce elements heavier than Iron according to what I have read.

    https://info.umkc.edu/news/colliding-neutron-stars-produce-gold-silver-and-platinum/
    NO, that is NOT "according to what" you "have read".
    That link does NOT say or imply anywhere that "Supernovas do not produce elements heavier than Iron" and in fact implies the exact opposite.
    Having problems with reading comprehension?
    It says "merging neutron stars produce most of the heavy metals in the universe".
    It does NOT say "merging neutron stars produce all of the heavy metals in the universe".
    "most" ≠ "all"
    + the link doesn't even mention 'iron' let alone define all those "heavy metals" it mentions as "heavier than Iron" thus even if that word WAS "all" your link would STILL not imply "Supernovas do not produce elements heavier than Iron"!
    -there is just so much wrong with your claims!
    I truly don't understand how you read so much but understand so little of it.
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    29 Sep '20 15:21
    @humy said
    NO, that is NOT "according to what" you "have read".
    That link does NOT say or imply anywhere that "Supernovas do not produce elements heavier than Iron" and in fact implies the exact opposite.
    Having problems with reading comprehension?
    It says "merging neutron stars produce most of the heavy metals in the universe".
    It does NOT say "merging neutron stars produce [b] ...[text shortened]... ong with your claims!
    I truly don't understand how you read so much but understand so little of it.
    It is according to what I have read. You don't know what I have read. Only I know that.

    https://physics.news/2019-10-26-gold-heavy-elements-formation-neutron-stars-collision.html

    When did I ever claim neutron stars produce ALL of the heavy metals in the universe? I am not even fully convinced neutron stars produced any of it on earth. That is a lot of gravity to overcome.

    This is all theory we are talking about. There is no certainty of the current scientific consensus. I don't believe neutron stars were always claimed to be the origin of elements heavier than iron. I think this is a recent theory. Until I heard about this recent theory I always assumed supernovas were the source of all elements heavier than hydrogen. This could still be true. Nobody knows for certain.

    This is unwarranted digression though. I started this with spin. That is why massive neutron stars that seem like they should collapse into a black hole don't. This is probably why some black holes are smaller than seems possible. They probably have a slow rate of spin. Most bigger black holes have collided with other black holes or neutron stars to get that big and have a high rate of spin as a result.

    I answered the question from the creator of this thread. You are welcome.
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    29 Sep '20 18:151 edit
    @metal-brain said
    It is according to what I have read. You don't know what I have read. Only I know that.

    https://physics.news/2019-10-26-gold-heavy-elements-formation-neutron-stars-collision.html

    When did I ever claim neutron stars produce ALL of the heavy metals in the universe? I am not even fully convinced neutron stars produced any of it on earth. That is a lot of gravity to ov ...[text shortened]... te of spin as a result.

    I answered the question from the creator of this thread. You are welcome.
    When did I ever claim neutron stars produce ALL of the heavy metals in the universe?
    That isn't what I claimed you claimed.
    Your claim was "Supernovas do not produce elements heavier than Iron according to what I have read" immediately followed by a link which I correctly pointed out didn't say/imply anything of the sort.
    This is all theory we are talking about. There is no certainty of the current scientific consensus.
    False. There is a current scientific consensus on this. To find it you have just to read it. Actually your own links more than hint on what that scientific consensus is.
    I am not even fully convinced neutron stars produced any of it on earth.

    you aren't convinced by the claim your own link makes you only just posted makes of what is probably true? Then why did you post that link? This is what your latest link says
    https://physics.news/2019-10-26-gold-heavy-elements-formation-neutron-stars-collision.html
    "...the origin of gold and other heavy elements has always been a mystery. A recent study by American researchers suggests that they were byproducts of a collision between two neutron stars billions of years ago. ..."

    I for one trust what your links says much more than your opinions.
  12. Standard memberDeepThought
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    29 Sep '20 19:56
    @metal-brain said
    One word, "spin".

    Some neutron stars seem too massive to not collapse into a black hole. The reason is the rate of spin. Remember, if neutron stars did not spin at an extremely fast rate there would not be enough centrifugal force for heavy rare metals to escape. That is the theory as to why gold and other rare metals are on our planet. If that theory is wrong those rare heavy metals do not come from neutron stars as has been claimed.
    This isn't quite right, but not entirely wrong either. During supernova explosions a lot of neutrons are emitted by the progenitor star's core and the ejected material from the outer layers absorbs the neutrons, which provides the mechanism for the production of elements heavier than nickel. However, most of the platinum in the world comes from neutron star collisions (I believe, this is from memory and the theories on this are in a constant state of flux).

    Neutron star rotation cannot cause material to be ejected from the star. So called star quakes, where the internal structure changes might, I don't know. An extreme neutron star in spin-down can eventually become a black hole due to internal changes of state, and material will be ejected during this process; however, I believe the dominant mechanism for platinum production is neutron stars merging, which, I think, will normally also leave a black hole remnant.
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    30 Sep '20 03:31
    @deepthought said
    This isn't quite right, but not entirely wrong either. During supernova explosions a lot of neutrons are emitted by the progenitor star's core and the ejected material from the outer layers absorbs the neutrons, which provides the mechanism for the production of elements heavier than nickel. However, most of the platinum in the world comes from neutron star collisions ( ...[text shortened]... production is neutron stars merging, which, I think, will normally also leave a black hole remnant.
    I'm not sure what you are trying to say. I didn't say spin alone caused ejection. The collision would have to be a factor in my opinion. I was thinking the combination of the two, but it is still a lot of gravity to overcome. I would think someone would have measured the spin of bigger neutron stars and calculated the centrifugal force to see how the theory holds up.

    I think the lack of available neutrons in a supernova would explain how rare the heavy metals are without any neutron star ejection theory.

    I think all of these theories deserve more scrutiny. How could anyone know for sure? It isn't like anyone can take a sample of matter from a supernova or two colliding neutron stars to prove it.

    I think the amount of speculation into this is understated. How could anyone say for sure where platinum comes from? Seems like a lot of guesswork to me.
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