1. Joined
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    22 Jul '21 04:21
    Gene therapy. Genetic engineering. These terms get thrown around as boogie men. Why?

    (within this thread it is obvious vaccines aren't gene therapy)
  2. Subscribershavixmir
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    22 Jul '21 04:24
    @wildgrass said
    Gene therapy. Genetic engineering. These terms get thrown around as boogie men. Why?

    (within this thread it is obvious vaccines aren't gene therapy)
    Long term consequences are unknown.
    And it’s very difficult to do in a capsulated environment.
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    22 Jul '21 04:261 edit
    @shavixmir said
    Long term consequences are unknown.
    And it’s very difficult to do in a capsulated environment.
    There's a cost-benefit to every medical intervention, but its curing debilitating diseases like sickle cell.
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    22 Jul '21 06:30
    @wildgrass said
    Gene therapy. Genetic engineering. These terms get thrown around as boogie men. Why?

    (within this thread it is obvious vaccines aren't gene therapy)
    It depends on their purpose.
    Why do you think the covid vaccines are called "gene vaccines"?
  5. Subscribershavixmir
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    22 Jul '21 07:27
    @metal-brain said
    It depends on their purpose.
    Why do you think the covid vaccines are called "gene vaccines"?
    They’re not.
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    22 Jul '21 07:39
    @shavixmir said
    They’re not.
    Yes they are. Look it up.
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    22 Jul '21 07:48
    Gene vaccines are a new approach to immunization and immunotherapy in which, rather than a live or inactivated organism (or a subunit thereof), one or more genes that encode proteins of the pathogen are delivered.

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12667025/
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    22 Jul '21 08:05
    From the FDA link below:

    "Human gene therapy seeks to modify or manipulate the expression of a gene or to alter the biological properties of living cells for therapeutic use 1.

    Gene therapy is a technique that modifies a person’s genes to treat or cure disease. Gene therapies can work by several mechanisms:

    Replacing a disease-causing gene with a healthy copy of the gene
    Inactivating a disease-causing gene that is not functioning properly
    Introducing a new or modified gene into the body to help treat a disease"

    https://www.fda.gov/vaccines-blood-biologics/cellular-gene-therapy-products/what-gene-therapy

    Also this from the same link:

    "There are a variety of types of gene therapy products, including:

    Plasmid DNA: Circular DNA molecules can be genetically engineered to carry therapeutic genes into human cells.
    Viral vectors: Viruses have a natural ability to deliver genetic material into cells, and therefore some gene therapy products are derived from viruses. Once viruses have been modified to remove their ability to cause infectious disease, these modified viruses can be used as vectors (vehicles) to carry therapeutic genes into human cells.
    Bacterial vectors: Bacteria can be modified to prevent them from causing infectious disease and then used as vectors (vehicles) to carry therapeutic genes into human tissues.
    Human gene editing technology: The goals of gene editing are to disrupt harmful genes or to repair mutated genes.
    Patient-derived cellular gene therapy products: Cells are removed from the patient, genetically modified (often using a viral vector) and then returned to the patient."

    The FDA says "viral vectors" are gene therapy.
    I explained to Shav, Wildgrass and no1 that some of the covid vaccines are viral vector vaccines. They didn't want to be confused with facts.

    I proved all of this a long time ago. All of the covid vaccines (except the Sinopharm vaccine) introduce a new or modified gene into the body. Introducing a new or modified gene into the body meets the FDA's definition of gene therapy. All mRNA and viral vector vaccines do that.
  9. Subscriberkevcvs57
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    22 Jul '21 10:141 edit
    @wildgrass said
    Gene therapy. Genetic engineering. These terms get thrown around as boogie men. Why?

    (within this thread it is obvious vaccines aren't gene therapy)
    There is nothing inherently wrong with gene therapy but there will always be a general sense of unease about any technique that can impact something as fundamental to who we are, coupled with it being hard to understand and even harder to control in terms of its frivolous application and potential misuse by bad actors.
    However given that the techniques cannot ( nor should they ) be erased from reality it’s a fear we need to live with whilst exploiting the techniques for therapeutic purposes to the max.
  10. Subscribershavixmir
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    22 Jul '21 12:49
    @metal-brain said
    From the FDA link below:

    "Human gene therapy seeks to modify or manipulate the expression of a gene or to alter the biological properties of living cells for therapeutic use 1.

    Gene therapy is a technique that modifies a person’s genes to treat or cure disease. Gene therapies can work by several mechanisms:

    Replacing a disease-causing gene with a healthy copy ...[text shortened]... nto the body meets the FDA's definition of gene therapy. All mRNA and viral vector vaccines do that.
    We've been over this a 100 times.
    You are wrong. End of.
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    22 Jul '21 13:03
    My grandfather was treated with experimental gene therapy, he died during treatment.
  12. Subscribershavixmir
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    The Covid-19 mRNA vaccines are not gene therapy because they are not designed to alter or change your genes in any way. The U.S. National Library of Medicine (NLM) describes gene therapy as a technique that “may allow doctors to treat a disorder by inserting a gene into a patient’s cells instead of using drugs or surgery.” For example, doctors may be able to either inactivate or replace a mutated gene that isn’t functioning properly or place a new gene in your body that will do something to combat a disease.

    A gene consists of DNA and serves as the “basic physical and functional unit of heredity,” according to the NLM. Messenger RNA, known as mRNA for short, is different from DNA. RNA stands for ribonucleic acid. DNA stands for deoxyribonucleic acid. DNA serves as the library for instructions to produce different proteins. When a cell wants to produce a protein, it uses the DNA to produce a copy of mRNA. That mRNA then serves as a blueprint for the protein that is built by the ribosomes in your cells. The DNA is in the nucleus of the cell. The ribosomes are not. Thus, the mRNA from a Covid-19 vaccine will not go into the nucleus but instead will simply go to the ribosomes, which in turn will manufacture the spike protein.

    https://www.genomicseducation.hee.nhs.uk/blog/why-mrna-vaccines-arent-gene-therapies/

    Gene therapies involve making deliberate changes to a patient’s DNA in order to cure or alleviate a genetic condition. This can be by adding a functional copy of a gene, disabling a gene that makes a faulty product or changing gene activation.

    The mRNA from the vaccines does not enter the cell nucleus or interact with the DNA at all, so it does not constitute gene therapy.

    Gene therapies can have long-lasting effects because they permanently change the cell’s DNA, with these changes being inherited by any daughter cells that result if the cell divides. In contrast, mRNAs are always transitory and are not inherited by daughter cells, making them ideal for use in vaccines.
  13. Subscriberkevcvs57
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    22 Jul '21 13:34
    @eladar said
    My grandfather was treated with experimental gene therapy, he died during treatment.
    That’s a shame but the key word there is “experimental” was it the therapy that killed him and was he aware of the risks.
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    22 Jul '21 14:25
    @kevcvs57 said
    That’s a shame but the key word there is “experimental” was it the therapy that killed him and was he aware of the risks.
    The COVID vaccines are classified as experimental and have not been fully tested.

    In any case, the COVID vaccine is genetically modified and I do not wish to have a genetically modified virus put into my body.
  15. Subscriberkevcvs57
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    22 Jul '21 15:45
    @eladar said
    The COVID vaccines are classified as experimental and have not been fully tested.

    In any case, the COVID vaccine is genetically modified and I do not wish to have a genetically modified virus put into my body.
    Ah an anti vaxxer COVID denying conspiracy theorist whose lying about covid vaccines being untested relative to other vaccines. It’s just a weird coincidence that the unvaccinated are dominating the covid death figures in the US and UK then. By all means do not take them deadly vaccines if you think that’s more of a risk factor.
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