The worrying decline of the UK Labour Party

More polling savaging for Labour in the local elections in the UK and they can’t blame Corbyn’s madness now.

While the Tories will no doubt crow and craw in Parliament this is not good for the UK as we need a strong opposing party, especially since the LibDem’s disappeared up their own ridiculous anti democratic asholes.

Corbyn was an dyed-in-the-wool Marxist idealist who got lost in the complexities of democracy and was utterly incapable of true political leadership. Starmer is part of establishment who seems to have vanilla at his core and who’s only tactic is blame and who’s only insight is hindsight.

I’m fine with the Tories having a decent majority (we need to get stuff done) but they need to be held on a tight reign by an economically astute Labour leadership who have crystal clear values, policies, and the intellectual capability to pitch them and fight the Tories on principle and process.

What the hell is wrong with Labour? Why can’t they find another John Smith?


Edit: Hartlepool falls to the Conservatives for the first time ever!

https://news.sky.com/story/election-results-conservatives-win-hartlepool-by-election-to-claim-seat-from-labour-for-first-time-ever-12298989

I think it's less what's wrong with Labour and more:
why the hell has state education not included politics?
How the hell are the Tories attracting the poor?

@yo-its-me said
How the hell are the Tories attracting the poor?

The point of my OP.

Nevertheless, “poor” people do vote conservative. If the Labour mindset is that we only want to attract the left wing impoverished, then good luck! Has the party learnt nothing from being in the sidelines for nearly two decades until Blair came along with a vision for the economic and social centre?

This notion that the alternative to Toryism is the voice of left wing poor belongs in Robin Hood movies.

Sorry, but that’s how I see it.

@divegeester said
The point of my OP.

Nevertheless, “poor” people do vote conservative. If the Labour mindset is that we only want to attract the left wing impoverished, then good luck! Has the party learnt nothing from being in the sidelines for nearly two decades until Blair came along with a vision for the economic and social centre?

This notion that the alternative to Toryism is the voice of left wing poor belongs in Robin Hood movies.

Sorry, but that’s how I see it.

You think Starmer is Corbyn mark2?
It cannot be left wing politics that’s putting them off because the current Labour Party doesn’t have any.
I think it’s a combination of there being more important things than politics going on in peoples lives and labour not really having a definable alternative to the undefinable politics of Boris and the Tories. If the Tories keep the red wall on board labour have no base.

@divegeester said
More polling savaging for Labour in the local elections in the UK and they can’t blame Corbyn’s madness now.

While the Tories will no doubt crow and craw in Parliament this is not good for the UK as we need a strong opposing party, especially since the LibDem’s disappeared up their own ridiculous anti democratic asholes.

Corbyn was an dyed-in-the-wool Marxist idea ...[text shortened]... ults-conservatives-win-hartlepool-by-election-to-claim-seat-from-labour-for-first-time-ever-12298989

I'm not really surprised by this. It's important to have a strong opposition, but Labour is a mess.

London-bubble Labour activists have spent years hurling insults and abuse at their own voter base for deciding that the EU is overrated and unnecessary, getting ever further away from the issues that actually matter to people (while taking many positions that most people outside the bubble find annoying) and then assuming that people will vote for Keir Starmer in 2021 because Margaret Thatcher closed the pits 40 years ago. Working-class Northerners are always Labour, even if we openly despise their positions on almost everything and hold them in contempt...

Being taken for granted definitely gets under people's skin - it's not surprising that many decided to try the Tories.

You actually have to offer something coherent. What is Labour? Is it Corbyn? Is it Blair? Is it actually reconciled to Brexit (led by an Islington Remainer who tried to overturn Brexit), and does it represent what ordinary people actually want? (Nope) After a torturous few years, people want a government that operates on common sense and just does things.

On Hartlepool: After taking a clubbing in 2019, one would think that the Labour leadership wouldn't ensure that a remainer who lost his seat in 2019 wasn't parachuted into one of the most heavily leave seats in the country. How could that have gone wrong? Forgive the sarcasm, but there comes a point when one can only get exasperated.

Contrast this with a Tory party that:

1. Is liberal but not woke
2. The most centrist Tory government in memory (the whole "Boris Johnson is a right-wing extremist" was always baseless) - broad appeal
3. Finished Brexit soon after the last election
4. Made mistakes initially but has since done a good job on vaccines and lockdowns
5. Not taken the bait and continued to say "Our EU friends and partners" no matter how badly the EU behaves or how hard they keep bashing the self-destruct button
6. The furlough scheme
7. Is not jingoistic, but is not self-hating (which is NOT popular among the Labour base!)
8. Is relatively united and coherent - the same cannot be said for Labour. The civil war between Momentum and the Blairites is still there
9. Has a leader that seems relatable, and has a personality - Keir is another bland, soulless politician

The economy is enjoying a roaring comeback and things are going well. And people forget that historically, Labour isn't very good at winning elections at the best of times (Blair was an exception). Labour needs a major makeover if they don't want another decade or more of Tory rule, because that's the way it's going at this rate.

@kevcvs57 said
You think Starmer is Corbyn mark2?

Absolutely not; if Corbyn was terrible main course, then Starmer is a underset vanilla blamcmange. A bit runny at the bottom.

@ashiitaka said
I'm not really surprised by this. It's important to have a strong opposition, but Labour is a mess.

London-bubble Labour activists have spent years hurling insults and abuse at their own voter base for deciding that the EU is overrated and unnecessary, getting ever further away from the issues that actually matter to people (while taking many positions that most people o ...[text shortened]... they don't want another decade or more of Tory rule, because that's the way it's going at this rate.

Good summation, I fully agree.

People (generally and specifically Remainer left) are STILL underestimating the brexit vote. Watch how the “Leave” vote swing increases away from Labour in these local elections, it looks like the general election!

Your comment on the accusation of Boris being this “extreme right winger” made me smile. The opposition constantly underestimate Johnson, a man who came into Tory leadership, held parliament’s feet to the fire, fired those rebels from the party, won a landslide election and after years of no progress he got brexit done.

Like him or not the Johnson is is a leader and a doer and he doesn’t take crap. His prorogation of Parliament was (in hindsight) a stroke of genius. I was open-mouthed at his apparent “stupidity” as it was never going to fly....but what he was doing was sending a clear message to the electorate “I will do whatever it takes to get brexit done”.

What is Starmer? He looks like a vanilla loser to me.

@divegeester said
Good summation, I fully agree.

People (generally and specifically Remainer left) are STILL underestimating the brexit vote. Watch how the “Leave” vote swing increases away from Labour in these local elections, it looks like the general election!

Your comment on the accusation of Boris being this “extreme right winger” made me smile. The opposition constantly undere ...[text shortened]... do whatever it takes to get brexit done”.

What is Starmer? He looks like a vanilla loser to me.

“ Like him or not the Johnson is is a leader and a doer and he doesn’t take crap. His prorogation of Parliament was (in hindsight) a stroke of genius. I was open-mouthed at his apparent “stupidity” as it was never going to fly....but what he was doing was sending a clear message to the electorate “I will do whatever it takes to get brexit done”. ”
And I’m sure the Tories and their supporters will constantly bang on about brexit until they’ve wrung the last electoral drops out of it. Johnson “the genius” calm down he is still the bumbling corrupt Eton mess he’s always been. It’s the electorate that have dumbed down with him. We’ve always had a soft spot for bumbling idiots. I think the constant corruption at the heart of this govt will eventually take its toll.
Johnson’s biggest advantage and labours real problem is that Johnson is not a Thatcherite or an ideologue of any kind so he may well be able to keep the shires and post industrial north voting the same way.

@divegeester
Brilliant👍

@kevcvs57 said
And I’m sure the Tories and their supporters will constantly bang on about brexit until they’ve wrung the last electoral drops out of it.

I plan to wring the vinegar strokes out of it for about 4 years, the same amount of time I took crap from “friends”, “people in here” and work colleagues. 😜

@kevcvs57 said
Johnson “the genius” calm down he is still the bumbling corrupt Eton mess he’s always been. It’s the electorate that have dumbed down with him.

Yep, the leader of the party with a landslide majority and who did inside a year what two previous PMs failed to do is a “mess”. The longer you Reds keep underestimating him the longer you’ll stay in opposition...if that what Labour are these days.

@kevcvs57 said
I think the constant corruption at the heart of this govt will eventually take its toll.

Well Starmer should try and sell that to the party! 🤣

@kevcvs57 said
Johnson’s biggest advantage and labours real problem is that Johnson is not a Thatcherite or an ideologue of any kind so he may well be able to keep the shires and post industrial north voting the same way.

Agreed, he’s his own man and own Tory.

I can’t stand these Elton pricks any more than you, I just want a govt that get stuff done and drives some level of equality of opportunity. By that I mean gender, age, race and geography.

Sorry I’m doing a bit of a “sonship” in this thread...

Kev, I think Johnson’s got a free pass until Covid is fully under control in the uk which is at least a year away, so let’s say winter 2022.

After that it might be a little like the Churchill effect after WW2, where the country needed a wider portfolio and vision of social support and economic rebuild ... and he was out, despite being the right man for the season.

Boris could find that a metaphorical “peacetime” will be his undoing. Assuming Labour have got their ducks in a row by then of course!

Corruption... who cares!