Bernie is a Self Declared Socialist

No matter which camp you are in, at least this clarifies that he is indeed a socialist. It will make our posts start at the same place, that he is a socialist. I guess I win on that point, of many threads. Suzianne will say "Oh the irony', or 'fairy tale',, or 'lies' or, 'trump'., 'gaslighting', 'non sequitur'. Gets tiresome.

He gave a speech Wednesday Oct 13, defending Democratic Socialism, in a speech at George Washington University.

It is a fact, so you don't have to google it!!!!! Which means you don't have to ask me to Link it for you, like Ponderable, et al, continue to do. My Mac won't link. I am going to have to sell a bitcoin to pay a guy to fix it!! (Do you know bitcoin is $60K right now?). Don't tell Bernie.

He has claimed to be a socialist for many years, but that doesn't make him one.
Was FDR a socialist? He was a proponent of social programs too and unlike Sanders he got results.

It takes more than saying you support social programs to be a socialist.

You both have been schooled on Bernie's self-description before.

A Democratic Socialist is not a democrat nor a socialist.

Arguing with you idiots would be easier if you'd only learn to read.

@suzianne said
You both have been schooled on Bernie's self-description before.

A Democratic Socialist is not a democrat nor a socialist.

Arguing with you idiots would be easier if you'd only learn to read.

"A Democratic Socialist is not a democrat nor a socialist."

Oh... please attempt to explain that in a logical way.

@metal-brain said
"A Democratic Socialist is not a democrat nor a socialist."

Oh... please attempt to explain that in a logical way.

Here is a definition from the Cambridge Dictionary of the English language: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/democratic-socialism
Democratic socialism is "a set of political beliefs and principles supporting equal opportunities for everyone, under a fairly elected parliament"

@suzianne said
You both have been schooled on Bernie's self-description before.

A Democratic Socialist is not a democrat nor a socialist.

Arguing with you idiots would be easier if you'd only learn to read.

Now hold on. First, please note that Bernie, after saying to everyone that he is a "Democratic Socialist", does not tell us What That Means. Maybe you can tell us, so we can all debate the same thing. One thing we have to agree on...he wants the govt to give away things for free, which, in itself, is a tenet of Socialism..,....its Biggest Tenet.
Further, all medical care makes up 1/5 of our economy.... he wants to National that. Cool, you libs think. Well, he would not stop there....there is energy, there are the finance sectors, there is college tuition,....he would NEVER stop. So where would that leave us? When more than 51% are being fed by the government, living off the government, we would go into an abyss.
I just report the news. He has said that capitalism is incompatible with Freedom and Equality. Can you explain that as well?

@averagejoe1 said
No matter which camp you are in, at least this clarifies that he is indeed a socialist. It will make our posts start at the same place, that he is a socialist. I guess I win on that point, of many threads. Suzianne will say "Oh the irony', or 'fairy tale',, or 'lies' or, 'trump'., 'gaslighting', 'non sequitur'. Gets tiresome.

He gave a speech Wednesday Oct 13, defend ...[text shortened]... ll a bitcoin to pay a guy to fix it!! (Do you know bitcoin is $60K right now?). Don't tell Bernie.

No matter which camp you are in, at least this clarifies that he is indeed a socialist.


So, what's the problem?

@averagejoe1 said
Now hold on. First, please note that Bernie, after saying to everyone that he is a "Democratic Socialist", does not tell us What That Means. Maybe you can tell us, so we can all debate the same thing. One thing we have to agree on...he wants the govt to give away things for free, which, in itself, is a tenet of Socialism..,....its Biggest Tenet.
Further, all medical ...[text shortened]... e has said that capitalism is incompatible with Freedom and Equality. Can you explain that as well?

Right now it's welfare for the super rich in the USA. Amazon, and many other corporations, paid zero federal taxes. Many corporations do not pay a living wage. All other wealthy, western industrialized nations provide their citizens with health care, subsidized child care, education beyond high school, paid maternity and sick leave and a living wage.

@phranny said
Right now it's welfare for the super rich in the USA. Amazon, and many other corporations, paid zero federal taxes. Many corporations do not pay a living wage. All other wealthy, western industrialized nations provide their citizens with health care, subsidized child care, education beyond high school, paid maternity and sick leave and a living wage.

“....(Govt) to provide their citizens with health care, subsidized child care, education beyond high school, paid maternity and sick leave, and a living wage.”
This is Phranny def of Democratic Socialism. As it is socialism, why put the superfluous word , ‘ ‘democratic’ in front of it? An interesting issue.

@mchill said
No matter which camp you are in, at least this clarifies that he is indeed a socialist.


So, what's the problem?

The problem is that several liberals say Bernie is Socialist, several say he is not. So, I thought I would mediate, if you will, to have a stipulated definition of Democratic Socialist.

@averagejoe1 said
No matter which camp you are in, at least this clarifies that he is indeed a socialist. It will make our posts start at the same place, that he is a socialist. I guess I win on that point, of many threads. Suzianne will say "Oh the irony', or 'fairy tale',, or 'lies' or, 'trump'., 'gaslighting', 'non sequitur'. Gets tiresome.

He gave a speech Wednesday Oct 13, defend ...[text shortened]... ll a bitcoin to pay a guy to fix it!! (Do you know bitcoin is $60K right now?). Don't tell Bernie.

Democratic socialism is not socialism.
And you arguing that Bernie is a socialist because he claims to be a democratic socialist is completely moronic.

That being said, some of the policies Bernie advances are indeed socialist.
And that is perfectly fine.

@averagejoe1 said
The problem is that several liberals say Bernie is Socialist, several say he is not. So, I thought I would mediate, if you will, to have a stipulated definition of Democratic Socialist.

So, you're looking for the definition of a Democratic Socialist. I posted it below.

Why do people have to look these things up for you ?


Democratic socialism is a left-wing political philosophy that supports political democracy within a socially owned economy,[1] with a particular emphasis on economic democracy, workplace democracy and workers' self-management[2] within a market socialist economy, or an alternative form of a decentralised planned socialist economy.[3] Democratic socialists argue that capitalism is inherently incompatible with the values of freedom, equality and solidarity, and that these ideals can only be achieved through the realisation of a socialist society.[4] Although most democratic socialists seek a gradual reformist transition to socialism,[5] democratic socialism can support revolutionary politics as means to establish socialism.[6] As a term, democratic socialism was popularized by socialists who were opposed to the authoritarian backsliding towards a one party state in the Soviet Union and other nations during the 20th century.[7]

The origins of democratic socialism can be traced back to 19th-century utopian socialist thinkers and the British Chartist movement, which somewhat differed in their goals, but shared a common demand of democratic decision making and public ownership of the means of production, and viewed these as fundamental characteristics of the society they advocated for.[8] In the late 19th to the early 20th century, democratic socialism was also heavily influenced by the gradualist form of socialism promoted by the British Fabian Society and Eduard Bernstein's evolutionary socialism.[9] Democratic socialism is a broad label and movement, which includes forms of libertarian socialism,[10] market socialism,[11] reformist socialism[4] and revolutionary socialism[12] as well as ethical socialism[13] and several forms of state socialism[14] and utopian socialism.[8]

Democratic socialism is contrasted with Marxism–Leninism, which is often perceived as being authoritarian and undemocratic in practice.[15] Democratic socialists oppose the Stalinist political system and the Soviet-type economic system, rejecting the authoritarian form of governance and the centralised administrative-command system that formed in the Soviet Union and other Marxist–Leninist states during the 20th century.[16] Democratic socialism is also distinguished from social democracy on the basis that democratic socialists are committed to a systemic transformation of the economy from capitalism to socialism, whereas social democrats are concerned with reforming and humanizing capitalism through the framework of a welfare state. This has resulted in analysts and democratic socialist critics alike arguing that in effect, social democracy has endorsed capitalism.[17] Many commentators have stated that this was the result of their type of reformism that caused them to administer the system according to capitalist logic

@averagejoe1 said
socialist

Don't bandy about words whose meaning you do not have the moral integrity to understand.

@mchill said
So, you're looking for the definition of a Democratic Socialist. I posted it below.

Why do people have to look these things up for you ?


Democratic socialism is a left-wing political philosophy that supports political democracy within a socially owned economy,[1] with a particular emphasis on economic democracy, workplace democracy and workers' self-management[2] with ...[text shortened]... t of their type of reformism that caused them to administer the system according to capitalist logic

The problem is while Bernie calls himself a "democratic socialist" his actual policy preferences are "concerned with reforming and humanizing capitalism through the framework of a welfare state" which is the definition of a social democrat. In other words, he does not support a "systemic transformation of the economy from capitalism to socialism" because in socialism the workers must control the means of production, a tenet absent from almost all Bernie's ideas.

@averagejoe1 said
“....(Govt) to provide their citizens with health care, subsidized child care, education beyond high school, paid maternity and sick leave, and a living wage.”
This is Phranny def of Democratic Socialism. As it is socialism, why put the superfluous word , ‘ ‘democratic’ in front of it? An interesting issue.

.Socialism seems to work pretty well in many countries
Denmark, Netherlands, Sweden, Norway, Spain, Portugal, India, South Korea---there are many more. Even, France, England and Germany have many socialist programs...How are we able to put a man on the moon, yet allow poor children to suffer with teeth rotting in their head for want of dental care? Someone please explain, to me, how it is
that tiny, poor Cuba has a lower infant mortality rate than the good ol' USA?