I think I've made it pretty clear on this thread that I don't think (or at least I'm not sure) that B&J is motivated by anti-Semitism. I think it's more of a knee-jerk anti-white colonialism.
I do draw a line between disapproval and boycott.
If you say "Look at what Israel is doing" and I say "Look at China" or something like that, you'd corre ...[text shortened]...
BUT, if you're going to employ the power of economic sanctions, you ought to do so evenhandedly.
Boycotts are traditional methods of pressuring recalcitrant States to conform their behavior to internationally accepted norms. "Whataboutism" arguments are particularly unpersuasive in this context; no other country I am aware of is building settlements on territory occupied in war following the UN Charter's banning of acquisition of territory by force.
No one insisted that South Africa couldn't be boycotted unless other countries that discriminated against minorities was too. This looks very much like an invented Israeli-specific criticism of boycott.
@quackquacksaid What if Ben and Jerrys looked at American society and said African Americans commit a disproportionate amount of crime (which they do) and drop out of school at a disproportionate rate (which they also do) and until African Americans reform their ways, it would no longer sell its product in areas where African Americans live. I doubt you find this policy productive, perha ...[text shortened]... o far in imposing morality.
It picked one side of a relatively minor non-ice cream related issue.
Well in the case of African Americans I would explain about people in poverty always scoring high in the crime figures and perhaps they should use their corporate wealth alleviating that poverty by targeted community based programmes in high density deprived black communities. Why do the supporters of Zionist expansion keep showing me apples when we are discussing oranges. As I’ve said this is much more likely to be a statement opposing US foreign policy as much as a token stand against Israel’s settlement policy but you keep ignoring that fact. The embargo also effects Palestinians living in these territories so any feint hope you may harbour of labelling the embargo as anti Semitic just isn’t goi got stand up. Accusing them of tokenism is also mute because it was always meant to be a token gesture of criticism of Israel’s settlement policy.
@sh76said When a person makes a political statement, it's just a political statement. When a multinational retailer takes economic action against one target, it is not a political statement - it is discrimination. I'm not saying discrimination is always inherently bad; but you can't judge it by the same standard as political statements.
If I announce that I don't like Asian people, tha ...[text shortened]... g in a boycott is a nasty business. I don't know their precise motivation, so I'll leave it at that.
Private companies can boycott anyone they choose to boycott if you want to stop that freedom within your own borders that’s your business but the idea that US government can stop a private company from engaging with China or Iran but at the same time stop a private company from taking a moral stance against the Israeli Government’s treatment of the Palestinians and Arab Israelis is utterly indefensible . There is only one side that’s ejecting people from their homes and ethnically. cleansing territories under their control. This is not a complex issue unless you intentionally blow smoke.
@kevcvs57said Well if B & J are going to blow up buildings killing scores if civilians, oh no hang on.
Yeah, wait until B&J gets subjected to a few dozen Charlie Hebdos and 75% of of the world cheers them on; then see if they don't hire an armed guard to shoot the attackers.
@sh76said Yeah, wait until B&J gets subjected to a few dozen Charlie Hebdos and 75% of of the world cheers them on; then see if they don't hire an armed guard to shoot the attackers.
So you think that the right wing Knesset leader is correct to call an ice cream embargo a Terrorist attack then.
“75% of the world cheers them on”
You really are deep into paranoia territory here. I’d bet it was about 60% less than that.
@kevcvs57said So you think that the right wing Knesset leader is correct to call an ice cream embargo a Terrorist attack then.
“75% of the world cheers them on”
You really are deep into paranoia territory here. I’d bet it was about 60% less than that.
===So you think that the right wing Knesset leader is correct to call an ice cream embargo a Terrorist attack then.===
No. I think he's using the tools of extreme rhetoric at his disposal, like people do when the scream racism all the time.
===“75% of the world cheers them on”
You really are deep into paranoia territory here. I’d bet it was about 60% less than that.====
Gee, I don't know. You think only 60% of the world supports the Palestinians against Israel? That would be nice, but I doubt it.
@sh76said ===So you think that the right wing Knesset leader is correct to call an ice cream embargo a Terrorist attack then.===
No. I think he's using the tools of extreme rhetoric at his disposal, like people do when the scream racism all the time.
===“75% of the world cheers them on”
You really are deep into paranoia territory here. I’d bet it was about 60% less than that.==== ...[text shortened]... only 60% of the world supports the Palestinians against Israel? That would be nice, but I doubt it.
I was thinking more like 15% are committed to the Palestinian cause when they employ violence against Israel. But every time the Israeli government allows itself to be manoeuvred into crushing the people of Palestine with their overwhelming military might then of course short term empathy for their position will sky rocket temporarily. Of course Israel’s leaders know this but have calculated that it’s a price worth paying.
Even then those who support Israel’s right to exist never drops below a sizeable majority. But it’s not a binary choice between unswerving support as offered by the evangelical right in the USA and the rabidly anti Israeli sentiments coming out of places like Iran’s leadership. The vast majority have a much more nuanced and objective view of the Israeli Palestinian conflict.
@kevcvs57said I was thinking more like 15% are committed to the Palestinian cause when they employ violence against Israel. But every time the Israeli government allows itself to be manoeuvred into crushing the people of Palestine with their overwhelming military might then of course short term empathy for their position will sky rocket temporarily. Of course Israel’s leaders know this bu ...[text shortened]... . The vast majority have a much more nuanced and objective view of the Israeli Palestinian conflict.
@sh76said Yeah, wait until B&J gets subjected to a few dozen Charlie Hebdos and 75% of of the world cheers them on; then see if they don't hire an armed guard to shoot the attackers.
So you really think that 75% of the world supports things like the Charlie Hebdos massacre?
It's sad that your views have changed so much; you used to be far more reasonable. This pity party for poor Israel attitude with a dash of anti-Muslim stereotyping to justify oppression of the Palestinians is most unattractive.
Hopefully more companies will join the boycott of these territories illegally occupied now for more than half a century.
@no1maraudersaid So you really think that 75% of the world supports things like the Charlie Hebdos massacre?
It was a metaph...
You know what? Never mind. I can't debate Israel on this board. It makes me too upset. I try to stay out of Israel debates here and every time I backslide, I regret it.
Suffice it to say that I hope there can one day be a viable two-state solution where both people have peace and sovereignty and I acknowledge that there needs to be a shift in thinking of the powers that be on both sides for this to happen.
I hope this is my last word on the subject for a while.
Ben and Jerry's
23 Jul '21 00:53
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