congratulations

Breaking Bad clan for the most gross points
every game matters
they are the true ladder champions
good job VESPIN

@lemondrop said
Breaking Bad clan for the most gross points
every game matters
they are the true ladder champions
good job VESPIN

Such a shame you have to end the year on a sour note.

It has been well established that net points would be the deciding factor.

VESPIN has done a much better job with his clan than you have with yours, and should be congratulated on personal changes he made which there is no need to go into detail about. I think he is heading in the right direction now.

Personally I don't think he should have anything to do with your clan at all.

-VR

@Very-Rusty fully agree

@lemondrop

I too would like to offer Vespin my congratulations on running a successful 2019 clan season.
He put out many challenges and was competitive finishing on the first page of the clan table.
And he played clean this year.
By doing so, he supported and promoted the clan feature.
After a few unsavory individuals abused this popular feature this year.

I assume that by offering your congratulations to his clan that you have perhaps learned something from him ?
We all hope so.

Have a Happy New Year. 😉

@lemondrop said
Breaking Bad clan for the most gross points
every game matters
they are the true ladder champions
good job VESPIN

I agree Vespin has won the most challenges and also the most games
What twisted system the clan system is
I am surprised Al is brown nosing

@padger said
I agree Vespin has won the most challenges and also the most games
What twisted system the clan system is
I am surprised Al is brown nosing

I think everyone is pretty much in agreement on VESPIN improvement on his Clan.

The Clan system has been looked at many times and many things changed over the years.

Where it is noted VESPIN has won most challenges, his clan also has close to 1300 lost games, compare that to Metallica's lost challenges which you will see are far less. You just can't win because you have won more yet lost more games.

I am surprised you THINK Al is brown nosing something he has NEVER done, he always speaks his mind and not always in our favour.

You were a part of Lemons Clan for awhile if memory serves me right, I believe you were let go if I am not mistaken. Correct me if I am wrong of course!

You may want to re-think things a little before throwing daggers.

-VR

@lemondrop said
Breaking Bad clan for the most gross points
every game matters
they are the true ladder champions
good job VESPIN

I agree..
Vespin is gross..
You throw toys out of pram again?

@padger said
I agree Vespin has won the most challenges and also the most games
What twisted system the clan system is
I am surprised Al is brown nosing

Breaking Bad has also lost over 200 challenges.
Which explains why they are not at the top of the clan table.
It also explains why the gross point scoring system isn’t the scoring system of record.
The clan system is not a contest to determine which clan can play the most challenges.

There is a risk/reward aspect in net points scoring that reflects on the won-lost performance of every clan.

@lemondrop said
Breaking Bad clan for the most gross points
every game matters
they are the true ladder champions
good job VESPIN

Your comment that every game matters shows that you don’t understand the gross point scoring system either.

If a 5 player (10 game) challenge is won or lost and there are 3 games remaining in the challenge, the outcome of those 3 games won’t change the outcome of the challenge.
Doesn’t matter if we are using net points or gross points scoring.

We (some of the adults in the debate) have discussed possible solutions back in 2017 where every game would count.
The gross point scoring system wasn’t one of those solutions.

Your attempt to place a crown on a clan in order to shape a year end result to your liking is kind of weak.

But hey !!
Have a Happy New Year. 🙂

@mghrn55 said
Your comment that every game matters shows that you don’t understand the gross point scoring system either.

If a 5 player (10 game) challenge is won or lost and there are 3 games remaining in the challenge, the outcome of those 3 games won’t change the outcome of the challenge.
Doesn’t matter if we are using net points or gross points scoring.

We (some of the adults in ...[text shortened]... to shape a year end result to your liking is kind of weak.

But hey !!
Have a Happy New Year. 🙂

in a gross point scoring system it is not the winning of the challenge that is most important but the winning of games
those three games in your example could decide the winner at the end of the year
it is you who doesn't seem to understand

in a gross point scoring system, the dumping of games would never be of an advantage because you never know how important each game will be at the end

also, a gross point scoring system would eliminate the ridiculous negative points given the loser of a challenge

@lemondrop said
in a gross point scoring system it is not the winning of the challenge that is most important but the winning of games
those three games in your example could decide the winner at the end of the year
it is you who doesn't seem to understand

in a gross point scoring system, the dumping of games would never be of an advantage because you never know how important each gam ...[text shortened]... s point scoring system would eliminate the ridiculous negative points given the loser of a challenge

The clan challenge feature was there before I joined this site.
But what I see is that it was conceived as a winner take all concept.
Much like the pot in a poker game.
The person with the better hand gets the pot. It doesn’t get divided up amongst the losers as well.

So that’s how the gross point system came about.
Now what happened after that was that a clan could finish at the top of the table with a losing won lost record.
You provided a perfect example by starting this thread. Thank you !!

That concept was deemed to be flawed because not all clans play the same number of challenges throughout the year.
But we already have a feature for that. The clan league.
So the net points feature was introduced. Once again before my time.
This added a level of risk reward to the clan challenges.

This is not perfect. But it strikes a reasonable balance.
A clan still has to play a reasonable volume of challenges to contend in the standings.
And they have to win more than they lose.

If you look through the first page in the standings, you will see a clan with a record 20W, 8L, 5T.
A good won lost ratio. But only 33 challenges this year.
Good enough to be at the bottom of the first page. But not at the top.
They didn’t play enough challenges.

Then you have Breaking Bad, the clan you congratulated.
They completed 540+ challenges, but their won lost record is at the .500 level. Not good enough to win.

What some people are looking for is a complete rewrite of the clan feature.
Russ tried that in 2016-2017, the “ELO rating for clans”.
He had a beta version out on that if you recall.
The clan at the top of that table had played fewer than 30 challenges, as I recall.

I think Russ is giving the clan feature some thought.
And he is factoring in resource considerations (his time and money).
He has already wasted enough of that trying to cater to one person’s (Carrobie) agenda.

The fact that you frame your post in the form of an unfounded accusation by talking about dumping games again is not something that Russ will have much appetite for.

In fact, this whole thread is wrapped around your grievance with one clan. Again !!

Have a Happy New Year !! 😛

@mghrn55 said
The clan challenge feature was there before I joined this site.
But what I see is that it was conceived as a winner take all concept.
Much like the pot in a poker game.
The person with the better hand gets the pot. It doesn’t get divided up amongst the losers as well.

So that’s how the gross point system came about.
Now what happened after that was that a clan could fi ...[text shortened]... hole thread is wrapped around your grievance with one clan. Again !!

Have a Happy New Year !! 😛

I don't think it's worth getting into(yet another) long debate about the rights and wrongs of the clan points system.
I recall a lot of talk on this subject a while ago and the clan leaders voted for the current system.
There's nothing to stop anyone mounting a campaign to get the system changed, but I doubt there would be much support.
So basically,you either start a campaign for change, accept the rules as they stand or don't play.

@venda said
I don't think it's worth getting into(yet another) long debate about the rights and wrongs of the clan points system.
I recall a lot of talk on this subject a while ago and the clan leaders voted for the current system.
There's nothing to stop anyone mounting a campaign to get the system changed, but I doubt there would be much support.
So basically,you either start a campaign for change, accept the rules as they stand or don't play.

I concur, this subject has already been beaten to death!

No system will make everyone happy, and as you said the Clan Leaders already voted for the system which is now in place, that everyone has to play.

I think you hit the nail on the head, if you don't like the rules simply don't play!

-VR

@venda said
I don't think it's worth getting into(yet another) long debate about the rights and wrongs of the clan points system.
I recall a lot of talk on this subject a while ago and the clan leaders voted for the current system.
There's nothing to stop anyone mounting a campaign to get the system changed, but I doubt there would be much support.
So basically,you either start a campaign for change, accept the rules as they stand or don't play.

I have accepted the rules as they are.
I was responding to those who just can't let it go.
And maybe that was your point.
I should just have ignored the post altogether.

But there is an irony here.
The individual who started this thread trying to slip in an insinuation is the very person who was caught red handed this year and got slapped.

With that, I'll back off now.
But my offer of congratulations to Vespin's clan for a year of redemption stands.

@mghrn55 said
I have accepted the rules as they are.
I was responding to those who just can't let it go.
And maybe that was your point.
I should just have ignored the post altogether.

But there is an irony here.
The individual who started this thread trying to slip in an insinuation is the very person who was caught red handed this year and got slapped.

With that, I'll back off now.
But my offer of congratulations to Vespin's clan for a year of redemption stands.

Well said....We will always have those who don't like things the way they are.

Nothing we can do about that. From what I can see if they can't have it their way they will continue to cry about the system. I don't see ideas being put forth to make things any different or better. That has already been done and voted on.

I for one am happy you didn't just ignore the post.

Like I said no one will ever agree on everything, but we do have to go with majority as they do rule, not just a few. I do see reasons why only the Clan Leaders got to Vote as they are the ones who really have to do all the work putting the challenges together. All the rest of us have to do is just "play the game"!

-VR