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  1. Standard membergalveston75
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    28 Mar '24 20:14
    @Ghost-of-a-Duke

    Your grasp of reality is almost non existent but this is our answer. Take it or leave it.......

    "The modern-day organization of Jehovah’s Witnesses began at the end of the 19th century. At that time, a small group of Bible students who lived near Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, in the United States, began a systematic analysis of the Bible. They compared the doctrines taught by the churches with what the Bible really teaches. They began publishing what they learned in books, newspapers, and the journal that is now called The Watchtower—Announcing Jehovah’s Kingdom.

    Among that group of sincere Bible students was a man named Charles Taze Russell. While Russell took the lead in the Bible education work at that time and was the first editor of The Watchtower, he was not the founder of a new religion. The goal of Russell and the other Bible Students, as the group was then known, was to promote the teachings of Jesus Christ and to follow the practices of the first-century Christian congregation. Since Jesus is the Founder of Christianity, we view him as the founder of our organization.

    Colossians 1:18-20:

    18 and he ( Jesus) is the head of the body, the congregation. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that he might become the one who is first in all things; 19 because God was pleased to have all fullness to dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all other things by making peace through the blood he shed on the torture stake, whether the things on the earth or the things in the heavens.
  2. Standard membergalveston75
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    28 Mar '24 18:03
    A couple of the more scriptural foolish posters here will in no way get this. That is a given fact..... This is for the others here that actually think.
    The bible uses the words "light" and "darkness" to explain the state of humans spiritual teachings, practices, type of worship and also their involvement in the world and their support to mans governments and his rules.
    The bible describes that the majority of the world is in spiritual darkness.
    (1 John 5:19, "We know that we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one." (Not JW's words, Jehovah's words)
    The bible says that some would be in a lit position but that the light would continually get brighter as time goes by and that not many others would ever see it.

    Proverbs 4:18,
    18 "But the path of the righteous is like the bright morning light
    That grows brighter and brighter until full daylight."

    ( Not JW's words, Jehovah's words)
    The point here is that most religions still follow and practice very old pagan beliefs like the Trinity for example, and no matter the proof shown that it is not a bible teaching, they never change their belief in such things. That is but one example of how most of the worlds religions are spiritually in darkness and have pretty much not changed. As long as they stay that way Jehovah will never help them see the light or truths of such teachings if they don't remove themselves from them.
    Some here that are obviously in a dark spiritual condition, complain that the JW's change what we believe all the time. It is not comprehensible to them that it is simply Jehovah directing our course as time passes to a brighter light of understanding.
    ( Not JW's words, it is Jehovah's words )
    So these few of many scriptures explains that as we get closer to the end of imperfect mans rule of this world that is stuck in the dark spiritually, but that some are in the light of understanding what Jehovah has let us see earlier and what he lets us see now and that would include any corrections he now lets us understand.
    When a light gets brighter, you gradually see things clearer. Thanks to Jehovah.....
  3. Standard membergalveston75
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    27 Mar '24 20:11
    @Ghost-of-a-Duke

    Lol. Wow you have got to be kidding. Go get a job or something....
  4. Standard membergalveston75
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    27 Mar '24 18:27
    @ghost-of-a-duke said
    Charles Russell, founder of JWs believed (and stated) that the divinity of Jesus was retained, and was one of the reasons he should be worshipped.

    Our resident JW here won't touch this with a barge pole and has only tendered a weak watering down of the term 'worship' akin to the reverence a chap might give his postman for delivering a parcel.

    Charles Russell pre ...[text shortened]... e themselves rather than admitting their views have changed (and moved further away from scripture).
    Lol. Not that you will ever want to learn as that would prove you are so misguided about who Jesus is to us, which is to be expected by all your silly post.
    But should you like to know how we view Jesus, just go to JW.ORG and look up "Jesus". I know you won't and that will only prove that you have no idea what you are talking about and then you might have to have crow for dinner.....
  5. Standard membergalveston75
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    27 Mar '24 17:02
    @Ghost-of-a-Duke

    So sorry you are not understanding all that the word "Worship" means. Once you understand it's many meanings and the language that was being used back when that scripture was written, maybe you'll see it.
    I have nothing else to say.....
  6. Standard membergalveston75
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    27 Mar '24 16:58
    @mchill said
    Hello - Your post has some interesting information. If your motive is to initiate a discussion of these topics, you've certainly succeeded. If your motive is to change anyone's mind here, you've certainly failed.
    Hello to you. No I know most here and have discussed just about anything you could think of. I know they probably will not change and I'm not trying to change them. But you know at one time Saul ( Paul ) thought he was doing God's will by persecuting the followers of Jesus. But Jesus had a little talk with him and Saul's heart changed and he finally learned things he never knew. So it can happen to anyone if their heart is receptive....
  7. Standard membergalveston75
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    27 Mar '24 14:00
    @pettytalk said
    I the Preacher have been king over Israel in Jerusalem. And I applied my heart to seek and to search out by wisdom all that is done under heaven. It is an unhappy business that God has given to the children of man to be busy with. I have seen everything that is done under the sun, and behold, all is vanity and a striving after wind.
    Very true my friend. You can see that here with most of the comments and the forever arguing that most here do on every subject regarding the bible, god's gift to humans. But Jehovah had it written so that one has to search and rely on him for direction. Unfortunately we all have Satan that exist and has a huge bag of wrenches to throw into the mix to make the bible seem to be a continuous mystery. As the bible says about the wisdom and truths about his word is that most would always "be searching, but never finding". Satan makes sure of that. He even sees that in most bibles and in most religions that God's own name 'Jehovah' has been removed from their teachings and from their bibles. With that being removed it automatically adds the level of confusion needed to actually know who Jehovah is and who Jesus is. Satan has made the untruths of the trinity now seem to be a truth, and now most "Christian" religions believe it.
    One untruth only leads to others.....
  8. Standard membergalveston75
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    27 Mar '24 02:54
    @suzianne said
    "Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea:
    “Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.”
    Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tr ...[text shortened]... of Israel." ISRAEL.

    How many of your "elite" JWs are from the tribes of Israel?

    I wager NONE.
    So are you from any of those tribes? If not then you are not of this group either that are to go to heaven and serve beside Jesus. Right? If you do somehow make your way to heaven, what will you be doing there? Playing a harp?
  9. Standard membergalveston75
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    27 Mar '24 01:28
    @ghost-of-a-duke said
    “Six days later, Jesus took with him Peter and James and his brother John and led
    them up a high mountain, by themselves. And he was transfigured before them,
    and his face shone like the sun, and his clothes became dazzling white. Suddenly
    there appeared to them Moses and Elijah, talking with him. Then Peter said to
    Jesus, ‘Lord, it is good for us to be here; ...[text shortened]... istian worships Jesus because of his humanity
    4. A Christian worships Jesus because of his humility
    You are not quite getting what is being said in those scriptures but can't help you there.

    But at Matthew 4:10 Jesus himself said this:
    10 Then Jesus said to him: “Go away, Satan! For it is written: ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him (((((alone)))) you must render sacred service.’”

    If we are to worship him as we are to worship his Father Jehovah, why say this? Why not just not keep quite and just accept being worshiped in the way we worship his Father?

    Jesus himself said this, Matthew 23:9:
    9 Moreover, do not call anyone your Father on earth, for one is your Father, the heavenly one.

    Again why is he himself explaining that there is a clear difference between himself and his Father Jehovah that he is directing to whom we are to worship?

    Their is a difference that you aren't seeing......
  10. Standard membergalveston75
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    26 Mar '24 22:32
    @divegeester said
    He’s not going to answer you because he’s wrong, knows he’s wrong and is too proud to admit it.
    Lol. You are wrong about it all. Wish you weren't, but you don't have a chance. 🙁
  11. Standard membergalveston75
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    26 Mar '24 20:31
    @ghost-of-a-duke said
    No.

    Charles Russell was not talking about kissing the hand of Jesus or any of your other attempts to water down the meaning of worship. - The truth is, you were wrong when you said your church has never worshipped Jesus. The founder of your church did just that, no matter how far you try to distance yourself from him.
    Well I've answered your question more then once. I can't make you understand it. Sorry....
  12. Standard membergalveston75
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    26 Mar '24 20:17
    I would think the post 2 up from here answered that statement? No?
  13. Standard membergalveston75
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    26 Mar '24 19:36
    @galveston75 said
    @Ghost-of-a-Duke

    OK my fine friend. I will answer this never nagging issue of worshiping Jesus. I'm only answering you because I respect you and your comments.......
    I was hoping that all the highly educated ones here at this forum would take the time out to just go to a non religious, neutral book to see what the word WORSHIP means. So far it doesn't seem to happe ...[text shortened]... you would his Father. Are scriptures needed to prove this? Let me know if y'all can't find them....
    Anyone need help yet? Try this:

    Did Paul not say at Hebrews 1:6: “Let all the angels of God worship him [Jesus]”?’ (King James Version) How can we understand this scripture in the light of what the Bible says about idolatry?

    Worship in the Bible

    First, one has to understand what Paul meant here by worship. He used the Greek word pro·sky·neʹo. Unger’s Bible Dictionary says that this word literally means to ‘kiss the hand of someone in token of reverence or to do homage.’ An Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, by W. E. Vine, says that this word “denotes an act of reverence, whether paid to man . . . or to God.” In Bible times pro·sky·neʹo often included literally bowing down before someone of high stature.

    Help any?
  14. Standard membergalveston75
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    26 Mar '24 18:31
    @ghost-of-a-duke said
    @galveston75

    As an aside, do you now accept you were wrong when you stated, "We have never worshiped Jesus or Michael. Jesus himself forbids it...." bearing in mind, Charles Russell, founder of Jehovah's Witnesses, taught that it was proper to worship Jesus and pray to him?

    "It seems clear that His Divinity was retained in humanity because He repeatedly spoke of ...[text shortened]... e same reason would have prevented from receiving worship...."

    Zion's Watch Tower 1880 Oct pp.2-3
    Just a quick question? How old was Jesus when the 3 wise men (astrologers) visited with Jesus?
  15. Standard membergalveston75
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    26 Mar '24 18:26
    @Ghost-of-a-Duke

    OK my fine friend. I will answer this never nagging issue of worshiping Jesus. I'm only answering you because I respect you and your comments.......
    I was hoping that all the highly educated ones here at this forum would take the time out to just go to a non religious, neutral book to see what the word WORSHIP means. So far it doesn't seem to happen

    Perhaps most here say that we are to worship Jesus just as we are to worship say...God Almighty who's name is Jehovah? No we are not ever too do that and that was never said by any JW that we are to worship Jesus as if he were God Almighty.

    So maybe just go to say a dictionary and think about this??????

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/worship

    Anyway perhaps all here should show a little wisdom and understanding and see if it helps????

    By they way Jesus told humans on earth while he was here to never worship him as you would his Father. Are scriptures needed to prove this? Let me know if y'all can't find them....
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